Our Basic Text tells us that "Step Five is not simply a reading of Step Four." Yet we know that reading our Fourth Step to another human being is certainly part of Step Five. So what's the rest, the part that's more than simply a reading?
It's the admission we make - to God, to ourselves, and to another human being - that brings about the spiritual growth connected with this step. We've had some experience with making admissions already. We've admitted we have a disease; we've admitted we need help; we've admitted there's a Power that could help us. Drawing on our experience with these admissions will help us in Step Five.
Many of us finished our Fourth Step with a sense of relief, thinking that the really hard part was over, only to realize that we still had the Fifth Step to do. That's when the fear set in.
Some of us were afraid that our sponsor would reject or judge us. Others hesitated because we didn't want to bother our sponsor with so much. We weren't sure we trusted our sponsor to keep our secrets.
We may have been concerned about what the inventory might reveal. There might be something hidden from us that our sponsor would spot immediately - and it probably wouldn't be anything good. Some of us were afraid of having to re-feel old feelings, and wondered if there was really any benefit to stirring up the past. Some of us felt that as long as we hadn't actually spoken our inventories out loud, the contents wouldn't be quite real.
If we consider all our feelings about the Fifth Step, we may find that we are also motivated to continue this process by a desire for more recovery. We think about the people we know who have worked this step. We're struck by their genuineness and by their ability to connect with others. They aren't always talking about themselves. They're asking about others, and they're truly interested in knowing the answer. And if we ask them how they learned so much about relationships with others, they'll probably tell us that they began learning when they worked Step Five.
Many of us, having worked the Fourth and Fifth Steps before, knew that this process always resulted in change - in other words, we'd have to stop behaving the same old way! We may not have been entirely sure we wanted that. On the other hand, many of us knew we had to change, but were afraid we couldn't.
Two things we need to begin working Step Five are courage and a sense of trust in the process of recovery. If we have both these things, we'll be able to work through more specific fears and go through with the admissions we need to make in this step.
Tahir said
Jul 22, 2007
Facing fears
Any of the fears we've talked about here might be ours, or we might have other fears that plague us. It's essential that we know what our fears are and move forward in spite of them so that we're able to continue with our recovery.
What reservations do I have about working the Fifth Step? Do I have any fears at this point? What are they?
No matter what our fears stem from, most of our members have done pretty much the same things to deal with them: We pray for courage and willingness, read the section from It Works: How and Why on the Fifth Step, and seek reassurance from other members. Many of us have had the experience of going to step study meetings and finding that, coincidentally, the topic always seems to be Step Four or Five. If we make the effort to share what we're going through, we're sure to get the support we need from other members. Calling upon the spiritual resources we have developed through working the previous steps will allow us to proceed with our Fifth Step. What am I doing to work through my fears about doing a Fifth Step? How has working the first four steps prepared me to work the Fifth Step?
Tahir said
Jul 25, 2007
Before I attempted my fifth step for the first time with another human being, there was a lot of fear in context to even think of admitting what I had written to myself. The mere thought of having to address and come to terms with certain dark parts of my being seemed threatening to me. Having to admit it to another human being seemed a humongous and almost impossible task to do. Fears like what would the other person think of me? Will I be treated differently after this admission by the other person? Will I be rejected? Will I be judged or ridiculed? Will I be assessed in the future based on my past mistakes and wrongs?
But what really ushered in the willingness within me was the painful fact that I was not able to bear with having to live with these unresolved issues and terrible things from the past. I was in unbearable agony, having to live with them, trying to suppress those parts hard. Yet they kept emerging into my consciousness, hauting me to a point that led me back to using, again and again. I couldn't possibly live like that. I wanted to get rid of it all. I started yearning for freedom, liberation from these self-imposed prisons within me. I was so much paining that nothing seemed worse, and at that moment, the very fact that there was a person who was willing to share it all with me seemed like the only ray of hope. With whom was I sharing my fourth with or what that person might think seemed less threatening than to have to live with all this dirt inside me. I wanted to bring it out of the system, and I just did that. Grateful to my Higher Power for giving me the courage to do that, as I felt so light as if a huge boulder of rock has just been lifted from my chest. I could breath easy. And yes, nothing changed between me and the other person with whom I shared my fifth with, after I have shared it all. The only good thing that happened out of it is that it only brought us closer in a more safe environment of trust and acceptance.
Tahir said
Jul 25, 2007
Admitted to God
The chapter on Step Five in "It Works: How and Why" answers the question about why we must admit the exact nature of our wrongs to God in addition to admitting them to ourselves and another human being. In NA, we experience a way of life where the spiritual meets the everyday, where the ordinary meets the extraordinary. When we admit the exact nature of our wrongs to the God of our understanding, our admission becomes more meaningful.
How we make our admission to the God of our understanding depends on the specifics of our understanding. Some make a formal admission to God apart from the admissions we make to ourselves and another human being. Others acknowledge or invite the presence of a Higher Power in some way before going over the inventory with their sponsor. Those of us whose Higher Power is the spiritual principles of recovery or the power of the NA Fellowship may have to explore different methods of working this portion of the Fifth Step. Our sponsor can help with this process. Whatever we do is okay as long as we are aware that we are also making our admission to a Higher Power.
How will I include the God of my understanding in my Fifth Step? How is my Third Step decision reaffirmed by working the Fifth Step?
Tahir said
Jul 26, 2007
To ourselves
When we were using, most of us probably had people telling us we had a drug problem and should get some help. Their comments didn't really matter to us. Or even if they did matter, it wasn't enough to stop us from using. Not until we admitted our addiction to ourselves and surrendered to the NA program were we able to stop using. It's just the same with the admission we make in the Fifth Step. We can have everyone from our spouse to our employer to our sponsor telling us what we're doing that's working against us, but until we admit to our own innermost selves the exact nature of our wrongs, we're not likely to have the willingness or the ability to choose another way. Can I acknowledge and accept the exact nature of my wrongs?
How will making this admission change the direction of my life?
Tahir said
Jul 26, 2007
And to another human being
As addicts, one of the biggest problems we have is telling the difference between our responsibility and the responsibilities of others. We blame ourselves for catastrophes over which we have no control. Conversely, we're often in complete denial about how we have hurt ourselves and others. We overdramatize minor troubles, and we shrug off major problems we really should be taking a look at. If we're not sure what the exact nature of our wrongs is when we begin our Fifth Step, we'll know by the time we finish-because of making our admissions to another human being. What we can't see, our listener can, and he or she will help us sort out what we need to accept as our responsibility and what we don't.
Most of us asked someone to be our sponsor before we began formally working the steps, and have been developing a relationship with that person ever since. For most of us, our sponsor willbe the "another human being" we choose to hear our Fifth Step He or she will help us separate the things that were not our responsibility from the things that were. The relationship we have been building with our sponsor will give us the trust we need to have in him or her. The therapeutic value of one addict helping another is often powerfully demonstrated when our sponsor shares details from his or her own inventory as we share ours. This goes a long way toward reassuring us that we are not unique.
The trust we must have in the person who is to hear our Fifth Step goes beyond simply being assured that he or she will keep our confidences. We need to trust that our listener can respond appropriately to what we are sharing. One of the primary reasons that so many of us find ourselves choosing our sponsor as the person who will listen to our Fifth Step is because he or she understands what we're doing and therefore knows just what kind of support we need during this process. Also, if our sponsor is our listener, it will help promote continuity when we work the following steps. Still, if for any reason we choose someone else to hear our Fifth Step admission, his or her "qualifications" are the same ones we would look for in our sponsor: an ability to be supportive without minimizing our responsibility, someone who can provide a steadying influence if we begin to feel overwhelmed during our Fifth Step - in short, someone with compassion, integrity, and insight.
What qualities does my listener have that are attractive to me?
How will his or her possession of these qualities help me make my admissions more effectively?
Tahir said
Jul 26, 2007
For most of us, developing an honest relationship is something new. We're very good at running away from relationships the first time someone tells us a painful truth. We're also good at having polite, distant interactions with no real depth. The Fifth Step helps us to develop honest relationships. We tell the truth about who we are - then, the hard part: we listen to the response. Most of us have been terrified of having a relationship like this. The Fifth Step gives us a unique opportunity to try such a relationship in a safe context. We can be pretty much assured that we won't be judged.
Am I willing to trust the person who is to hear my Fifth Step?
What do I expect from that person?
How will working the Fifth Step help me begin to develop new ways of having relationships?
raman said
Jul 28, 2007
well,,, my experience is very simple,,,, I was a loner Group member,,, i got together with one and took my 5th. Now i choose to call her Goddess Diana,, Diana.J,,, my recovering sister for US heard me out,,, basically when her Guidance came,,, it gave me a new attitude,,, for the first time in my life fear was gone and I had a real feeling of connection with God(ess).... And yes it also required a heart felt admission to my self too,,, and a decaision to not conciously adopt those same attitudes in my life again !!! that old addictive logic was replaced with N.ew A.ttitudes, in fact N.A. stands for that !!!New Attitudes !!!.
Tahir said
Jul 28, 2007
Fifth Step Prayer God, My inventory has shown me who I am, yet I ask for Your help in admitting my exact nature to another person and to You. Assure me and be with me in this Step, for without this Step I cannot progress in my recovery.
Blessed said
Jul 29, 2007
STEP FIVE:
"Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs."
We have finished Steps 1, 2, 3, and 4.
Reading the Big Book up to Chapter Six. Reading the 12 x 12 (Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions) 55 to 62
Step 5 "INTO ACTION." Reading: We feel we are on The Broad Highway, walking hand in hand with the Spirit of the Universe.
In doing my very first Step Five. I had done a very complete and honest Step Four. My list was long the names were listed I had pages and names that I could remember. Some names I couldn't remember. I was still so sick from the withdrawls that my mind couldn't focus well.
I would list that person by place, or color of car, town, city, whatever.
At that time, my Sponsor was my guiding source through which I listened to. She guided me on all my Steps, the Big Book, meetings, prayer, looking up pages in the book, so that I could have what God ( "THE BIG BOOK" ) promised. I wouldn't ever want to get High or drunk again if I worked these Steps "HONESTLY," leaving out nothing, that I would have a Spiritual Awakening.
I was already going to a Church. I couldn't understand for the likes of me, WHY? More will be revealed and it was. I thought for sure that a lightening bolt was going to fry me when I walked in the front door. I am so glad that I was wrong and that GOd LOVES US.
I had no deep personal relationship with God yet I thought he hated me, I certainly thought that I wasn't good enough for God. Sharing about my life story from 13 years old until up until I was 38 years old. Praise the Lord! My SPonsor was patient with me because it took me 6 and 1/2 hours or longer to complete my 5th Step. I am very "BLESSED" that GOd has taken away all my "SINS" on that 5th Step. As well as all the Sins I have made or make until I meet God (Jesus) face to face. and on the other 2 5th Steps I have taken since then.
All of my family's amends were done face to face, including Aunts and Uncles, ex-husbands, deceased, some friends were also. I shared what I had done, my part only, "I said" I was sorry for being an irresponsible addict, alcoholic. Came clean with the "defects" I commited. Then I would ask if they could Forgive me? Most answered "YES."
Letters mainly were written and mailed to the women and men that were out of this part of the State or Out of State.
Before mailing them each a letter, it was prayed over. They were each Forgiven for the part if any that they played in my life if it caused pain and suffering. Then there are letters that will never be mailed because they have no address so they have been prayed over and are in the DEAD FILE. THe deferred pile is the same as the out of town. Except I haven't run across many so I have been O.k.
After completing Step 5 I went home to rest and be quiet for about an hour. Each Sponsor tells and I tell each Sponsee the same thing. Reviewing very carefully at the end of each day what we have done right/wrong,. We can Thank God daily for our Sobriety, really, really giving him all The GLORY.
Love to ALL of YOU,
BLessed
Tahir said
Jul 30, 2007
Thanks for sharing your experience, strength and hope on Step Five, Raman and BLessed
Tahir said
Jul 30, 2007
The exact nature of our wrongs
Another way to ensure that our Fifth Step is "not simply a reading of Step Four" is to focus on what we are supposed to be admitting: the exact nature of our wrongs. There is a diversity of experience in our fellowship about what, precisely, is "the exact nature of our wrongs. Most of us agree that, in working Step Five, we should be focusing our attention on what's behind the patterns of our addiction and the reasons we acted out in the ways we did. Identifying the exact nature of our wrongs is often something that happens while we're sharing our inventory. Sometimes the repetition of the same type of situation will reveal the exact nature of that situation. Why do we, for example, keep choosing to involve ourselves with people who don't have our best interests at heart? Why do we keep approaching every relationship we have as though our very lives depended on having the upper hand? Why do we feel threatened by new experiences, and so keep avoiding them? Finding the common thread in our own patterns will lead us right to the exact nature of our wrongs.
At some point in this process, we will probably begin calling certain patterns of behavior our "character defects." Though it won't be until the Sixth Step that we begin an in-depth examination of how each one of our defects plays a role in keeping us sick, it certainly won't hurt to allow this knowledge to begin forming in us now.
How does the exact nature of my wrongs differ from my actions?
Why do I need to admit the exact nature of my wrongs, and not just the wrongs themselves?
JudyO said
Aug 1, 2007
Hello and hugs family, I am an addict named JudyO.... I will never ever forget my first ever 4th and 5th step .... I had an awesome older member of our fellowship for my guide through our program and was guided for my first ever time through the steps online.....when it came time for my 5th step I was asked to find a member of my local fellowship whom I trusted to share my 4th &5 th step with......see trust is a Huge thing to me and back 4 years ago I didnt trust that many ppl in the fellowship (gossip and chaos and drama etc) so I found my HG member who is a Gay man and he gave me 3 days at 4 hours a day of his time and his ESH and his compassion and empthy cuz i was kinda nervous and had no idea what was fixing to happen.....little did I know of the true freedom that was about to desend on me...... we sat on a beach and prayed together and invited our HPs in.....for the first time in my entire life on this earth , I felt what true and real freedom is as I took a deep breathe and just let my HP in and shared my stuff with this man....and he knew how to be a particapte in hearing 5th steps cuz he just went with the flow and when we came through all my fears and resentments and anger etc and moved on to assets, he shared with me the assets he saw in me that I didnt mention...cuz I guess I couldnt see them or was afraid to see them , you know still trying to find that self acceptance that we all as addicts deal with.......on the end of the 3rd day we got done with my 5th step as the beach NA meeting was starting......and after it was over and I came home, simply exhausted and just filled with emotions and feelings I never had before, I felt ( and I know this may sound crazy) so much freedom that i felt like i was walking on air , I found my bed and went to sleep feeling like a huge ugly part of me had been removed...all the shame and pain of my past had gone when I was on the beach with my HP and my dear HG member.....Freedom . Thank you for letting me share... (HUgs)))),JudyO
raman said
Aug 2, 2007
UMM MMMMMMMMMMMM & YESS !!!!! My sponsor Tom pointed out a life saving differance,, something i use till this day on the 10th Step,,, he said thers wrong,,, but the EXACT NATURE OF OUR WRONG is another matter entirely !!! So whats the differance? Its like to take your money without you knowing it is stealing and that definately is wrong !!! and addmitting just that will take me no further,,, indeed it will only make me feel guilty and more seriously ashamed and unforgiving !!! So I need to get that the exact nature of that wrong is another thing= DISHONESTY !!! And this is what i need to admit !! And unless and until i admit the exact nature of that wrong thers no DELIVERANCE !!! But then onto the 6th to know whats the differance twixt "WRONG" and "DEFECT "!! However i know that freedom comes from admission to self,God and to another the EXACT NATURE of wrong !!!Just a reading of wrongdoing will not suffice !!
-- Edited by raman at 11:47, 2007-08-02
Tahir said
Aug 2, 2007
(((((NA Hugs to Judy O)))))
Thank you so much Judy for sharing your ES&H on Step Five. Awesome share. Glad we have you here with us at the MIP Step work Board
Tahir said
Aug 2, 2007
Spiritual principles
In the Fifth Step, we will focus on trust, courage, self-honesty, and commitment.
Practicing the spiritual principle of trust is essential if we are to get through the Fifth Step. As mentioned above, we will probably have some experience with our sponsor that allows us to trust him or her enough to go ahead with this step; but what about the more profound issues that arise when we wonder if working this step will really do any good? We have to trust a process as well as another person. The connection between the Fifth Step and our spiritual development isn't always clear to us. This doesn't mean that the connection is any less real, but it may make it harder for us to trust the process.
Do I believe that working the Fifth Step will somehow make my life better? How?
Courage is one principle we'll have to practice just to get started on this step. We'll probably need to continue drawing on our courage periodically throughout our work on this step. When we replace the phone on its hook just as we are about to call our sponsor for an appointment to make our admissions, we're feeling fear and we need to practice courage. When we're sharing our inventory and we see a paragraph that we just can't tell anyone about, we need to face that moment of fear with courage and go ahead with sharing all of our inventory. When we've just shared something excruciatingly painful, and our feelings of vulnerability are so overwhelming that we want to shut down before we hear what our sponsor has to say, we're at a defining moment in our recovery and we need to choose the courageous path. Doing so will influence the future course of our lives. Each time we feel fear, we remind ourselves that giving in to it has rarely had anything but negative consequences in our lives, and doing so this time won't be any different. Such a reminder should be sufficient to motivate us to gather our courage.
What are some of the ways in which I can find the courage I need to work this step?
How does practicing the principle of courage in working this step affect my whole recovery?
Have I set a time and place for my Fifth Step? When and where?
Practicing the principle of self-honesty is essential when we admit to ourselves the exact nature of our wrongs. Just as we mustn't disassociate ourselves from our emotions simply because we're afraid of our listener's response, so we can't afford to shut down our own reactions. We must allow ourselves to experience the natural and human reaction to the subject under discussion: our lives as addicts. Our lives have been sad. We've missed out on a lot because of our addiction. We've hurt people we loved because of our addiction. These realizations are painful. However, if we pay close attention, we'll probably recognize another feeling that's beginning to form in the wake of the pain: hope.
We've finally stopped using over our feelings, running away from our feelings, and shutting down because of our feelings; now, for the first time, we have a chance to walk through our feelings, even the painful ones, with courage. Doing so will, in the long run, make us feel better about ourselves. This is one of the paradoxes that we often find in recovery. What begins in pain ends in joy and serenity.
How have I avoided self-honesty in the past? What am I doing to practice it now?
How is a more realistic view of myself connected to humility?
How does practicing the principle of self-honesty help me accept myself?
The principle of commitment is demonstrated by the action we take in this step. Many of us have made so-called "commitments" in our lives, commitments to which we had no intention of sticking to in tough times; our "commitments" were made solely for the sake of convenience. With each step we've taken in the program of NA, we've deepened our real, practical commitment to the program. Getting a sponsor, working the steps, finding a home group and going to its meetings - each one of these actions demonstrates that we're committed to our recovery in a practical, meaningful way.
How does sharing my inventory with my sponsor further my commitment to the NA program?
BigV said
Aug 3, 2007
This step helped me see myself as I truly am and not just my faults but all my emotions and feelings that go along with my character, and there not all defects they are simply human nature.
I have strong feelings and emotions many times overly sensitive because i have gotten to be so defensive and OFFENSIVE lol.
I just found my fourth step I had to put it away since I have someone in my life and in my house now LOL (don't want her finding it, locked up in a box now) I almost threw it away but as I looked it over ripping each page from its binder I said " this is my life history" so many people have come and gone and I do not want to get rid of this, so I locked it away.
I have to admit ALL THE TIME the exact nature of my defects because I still do certain things, still haven't let go of everything but each time I admitt it seems to lesson its reacurrence, it is cleansing.
Tahir said
Aug 4, 2007
Thank you Vini for sharing your experiences of Step Five with us. Great share. Hugs and Love.
Tahir said
Aug 6, 2007
Moving on
One of the many benefits we get from working Step Five is a sense of self-acceptance. We clearly recognize who we are today, and accept ourselves without reservation. Just because we're lacking in certain areas doesn't mean we're worthless. We begin to see that we have both assets and defects. We're capable of great good - and of inflicting great harm. There are aspects of our personalities that make us very special. Our experiences, even the negative ones, have often contributed to the development of the very best parts of us. For the first time, we're able to acknowledge that we're okay just as we are, right at this moment. But accepting ourselves as we are today doesn't mean we can relax and stop striving for improvement. True self-acceptance includes accepting what we're lacking. It wouldn't be self-acceptance if we believed we had no further growing to do - it would be denial. So we acknowledge what we're lacking, and we make a commitment to work on it. If we want to be more compassionate, we work on it by practicing the principle of compassion. If we want to be better educated, we take the time to learn. If we want to have more friends, we take the time to develop our relationships.
How has working Step Five increased my humility and self-acceptance?
As we finish Step Five, we may feel a sense of relief; we've unburdened ourselves by sharing what we previously had put a lot of energy into hiding or suppressing. It is true that our "defects die in the light of exposure." Exposure to the light brings a sense of freedom that we feel no matter what the outer circumstances of our lives may be like.
All of our relationships begin to change as a result of working this step. We especially need to acknowledge how much our relationship with ourselves, with a Higher Power, and with other people have changed:
How has my relationship with a Higher Power changed as a result of working the Fifth Step?
How has my relationship with my sponsor changed as a result of working the Fifth Step?
How has my view of myself changed as a result of working this step?
To what extent have I developed love and compassion for myself and others?
Along with a sense of relief, our weariness with our character defects has probably reached a peak. This will translate easily into a state of being entirely ready - just what we need to begin Step Six!
Blessed said
Aug 11, 2007
Step 5
I like what everyone has to say on this board.
What you said Big V. When you put away your old 5th Step. Having someone else read what we journal, or pray or even write on our 5th Steps are very personal. They are between God and Ourselves. The Old self, my old self, your old self they are gone.
I threw away everything when I did my first 4th Step with my then Sponsor. It had every ugly thing I ever did, every ugly thing anyone else ever did, and I needed to heal from all of it. It didn't need to be remebered anymore, It is nothing but junk alot of it.
I have done other 4th Steps and 5th Steps around people, places or things. But so far drinking and drugging are almost 14 years past. The only way I can function in our World today is to know that I am a New Creation.
The past became the past. I have learned how to forgive others and God Forgives me. Life is work, it isn't easy sometimes, it is easy to Turn our Lives and Our Wills over to the care of GOD. We have tools today they consist of the things that are of God, for God, and from God. He never lets us down people might, sometimes even the program might, but God absolutly will not.
To say that today I am a reflection of the woman I used to be is not even possible. I LOVE what GOD is doing in my life in the LIVES of every ALcoholic, Addict and LOST CAUSE, he is certainly in the business of Restoration and Healing. All we have to do is ASK.
I LOVE you ALL,
Blessed
Tahir said
Aug 15, 2007
I'm adding up a post here just to bring the stepwork board threads in order since I again find all the threads mixed up again creating confusion to members who log in here as to what step we are currently at
raman said
Aug 16, 2007
Im not in any confusion at all,,,, Im very clear that the Fifth Step is practical= the EXACT NATURE of the wrong is what I need to admit !!! Not just the wrongdoing,,, but the exact nature of it ! And indeed after admitting it to the NA member who took my 5th Step and to God of my understanding,, I have a clean vision thats it begins with the thoughts !!!! So therefore I conclude that the exact nature of the wrong i did came from wrong thinking,, and therfore that wrong thought is indeed the exact nature of the wrong !! Once again I thank my guide of that time Diana,,, and my sponsor of that time Tom.D,, for pointing that out in the first place. I wasnt able to do the Fifth with him as he was in a bad stae of health and my internet connectivity with him living in some remote part of the US was difficult !!! So it was Diana all the way on the Fifth !!!!!
-- Edited by raman at 22:23, 2007-08-16
Tahir said
Aug 20, 2007
Just curious, what did each one of you do with your fourth step inventory writing material after you were done with Step Five?
raman said
Aug 20, 2007
will u believe this ? some 12 years later ,,, I still have it with me !!!
Tahir said
Aug 21, 2007
raman wrote:
some 12 years later ,,, I still have it with me !!!
Me too, in fact, all my step writing that I ever did, including the initial writing on steps that I did at my rehab "stays"
One of the oldtimers called Guru in my hometown Madras asked me to retain my inventory stuff (even the daily inventories) and not to destroy these writings without telling me why. I kept them all for almost a year and had forgotten all about it.
One day, I was complaining a lot in one of my meeting shares that recovery sucks, that everything seems to be going downhill and that I'm losing interest as nothing seems to be happening much. This oldtimer quietly heard all this, took me to the beach nearby after the meeting for a walk, and listened more to my frustrations and hopelessness. At the end of it all, he asked me about the writing stuff if I have them all still? Then he asked me to go back home and read them all...
I did, and then I could clearly see how much in me has changed, I could see all the miracles and gifts that I have received in my recovery when I looked at how I was and how I felt back then when I wrote this stuff as a newcomer and where I am at the time of reading it all that night... I was restored to sanity instantly, and a sudden feeling of peace and contentment enveloped me... I woke up the next morning with an exciting feeling, and kept hearing myself say through that day, "Recovery IS Happening, all the time!"...
raman said
Aug 22, 2007
whers Guru now ?? hes an old NA friend,, we met last in Imphal for the IRF meeting(as SIRSCONA was then known). that incidentally was the last time the NE Region of India sat at an Indian Regional Forum meeting,,, in that meeting it was decided they will split and form their own Region,,,, at that time i had just about arrived at the Fifth !!!
Tahir said
Aug 23, 2007
He is still in Madras, doing well. In fact, he continues to pass on the gifts of recovery to me till this day A very loving and lovable guy, always there for someone who might need him. A sense of purpose and calm demeanor is his forte. Highly instrumental, along with Jabir (another cofounder of NA Chennai), in making me feel that I belong in NA in my early struggles of recovery. Grateful that I had and continue to have members like them who give back selflessly and freely to newcomers.
Blessed said
Sep 26, 2007
Tahir,
You asked about the Fourth Step material from my first time in writting it. SInce I had shed so much pain and honesty on this Step. I never wanted anyone to read it! Just like some of my journals.
After I was delivered on THE CHURCH ALTER, Baptized, and Born again, it was tossed out. No one not even myself needs to remember that garbage from my past. When Satan reminds me of my past I like to remind him of his Future! The ABISS!
Thanks,
Love to you all Blessed
Tahir said
Sep 28, 2007
Yeah, that's a good way to let go of the past. One of the greatest amends to myself that was part of my list of amends, happened in a church at my hometown. I was very disturbed by the permanent harm that I had done to myself physically while using, and was just not able to come to terms with the issue, not able to forgive myself and to consider myself forgiven by my Higher Power. It had infact become a stumbling block for my recovery, and this issue led me to contemplate going back to using too, giving up on my recovery altogether, thinking that now that the damage has been done to my physical self, what use is staying clean going to be
One of the AA members who was one of my mentors back then, visited me, and when I opened up to him with this tormenting issue, he took me to the beachside Church (a very popular and renowned one in South India). We sat together inside the church and he shared with me something worse than what I could have done and how he made peace with it, at the same place, in front of and with the help of the loving Higher Power's presence there. I was so glad and relieved to hear his experience, that he could relate with me, that he had been through what I was going through, and that he had found a way to heal from it. I quickly did what he did trusting in the fact that there is a Power greater than me acting through this member, through that place, to help me heal too, just like it did for him. I felt great peace encompass me that day. When I walked out of the church, for a stroll along the shoreline at the beach with this member, I was at peace, I WAS PEACE
I can never forget that experience... left an indelible mark on my recovery...
florence said
Sep 28, 2007
thank you everyone. right now i am trying to live my program with the help of this site. i live 2 hours from the nearest meeting and i am far from fluent in the language here. i need more program. i have been unable to reach my sponsor since i moved here 4 months ago. it's the face to face honesty that i miss the most. i would appreciate any thoughts or suggestions, i would love to be sharing as you all describe with your sponsors. i have thought of starting a meeting but i really feel thats out of my depth right now. lots of love to you all, fellow recoverers, florence
Blessed said
Sep 30, 2007
Hi Florence,
Starting a meeting may be just what you need.I'll Pray for Gods will and what he wants for you and some others to have that aren't able to get FACE to FACE meetings.
I just shared on Gratitude and what it is to have the Fellowship around us. I really think that with you being here first that is a great step and who knows what the next one will be in Recovery.
I am pooped out and have Church in the A.M. so thanks for letting everyone here know what's up.
Tahir, Big V, and some others have put allot of hours and time in here. They really work the program and care. So you are in good hands here on the board.
Blessed
florence said
Sep 30, 2007
thank you blessed, i can feel your caring even at this distance. i had a miracle yesterdy evening! i had bought an english language newspaper even though it was a month out of date, i just wanted to read english. lo and behold!!!! there is an aa contact for english language meetings in france! isnt god fantastic! i am going to ring and even if its far away, they may be ok with me phoning in. please keep praying, maybe you have special powers!!
Facing fears
Any of the fears we've talked about here might be ours, or we might have other fears that plague us. It's essential that we know what our fears are and move forward in spite of them so that we're able to continue with our recovery.
What reservations do I have about working the Fifth Step?
Do I have any fears at this point? What are they?
No matter what our fears stem from, most of our members have done pretty much the same things to deal with them: We pray for courage and willingness, read the section from It Works: How and Why on the Fifth Step, and seek reassurance from other members. Many of us have had the experience of going to step study meetings and finding that, coincidentally, the topic always seems to be Step Four or Five. If we make the effort to share what we're going through, we're sure to get the support we need from other members. Calling upon the spiritual resources we have developed through working the previous steps will allow us to proceed with our Fifth Step.
What am I doing to work through my fears about doing a Fifth Step?
How has working the first four steps prepared me to work the Fifth Step?
Admitted to God
The chapter on Step Five in "It Works: How and Why" answers the question about why we must admit the exact nature of our wrongs to God in addition to admitting them to ourselves and another human being. In NA, we experience a way of life where the spiritual meets the everyday, where the ordinary meets the extraordinary. When we admit the exact nature of our wrongs to the God of our understanding, our admission becomes more meaningful.
How we make our admission to the God of our understanding depends on the specifics of our understanding. Some make a formal admission to God apart from the admissions we make to ourselves and another human being. Others acknowledge or invite the presence of a Higher Power in some way before going over the inventory with their sponsor. Those of us whose Higher Power is the spiritual principles of recovery or the power of the NA Fellowship may have to explore different methods of working this portion of the Fifth Step. Our sponsor can help with this process. Whatever we do is okay as long as we are aware that we are also making our admission to a Higher Power.
How will I include the God of my understanding in my Fifth Step?
How is my Third Step decision reaffirmed by working the Fifth Step?
To ourselves
When we were using, most of us probably had people telling us we had a drug problem and should get some help. Their comments didn't really matter to us. Or even if they did matter, it wasn't enough to stop us from using. Not until we admitted our addiction to ourselves and surrendered to the NA program were we able to stop using. It's just the same with the admission we make in the Fifth Step. We can have everyone from our spouse to our employer to our sponsor telling us what we're doing that's working against us, but until we admit to our own innermost selves the exact nature of our wrongs, we're not likely to have the willingness or the ability to choose another way.
Can I acknowledge and accept the exact nature of my wrongs?
How will making this admission change the direction of my life?
And to another human being
As addicts, one of the biggest problems we have is telling the difference between our responsibility and the responsibilities of others. We blame ourselves for catastrophes over which we have no control. Conversely, we're often in complete denial about how we have hurt ourselves and others. We overdramatize minor troubles, and we shrug off major problems we really should be taking a look at. If we're not sure what the exact nature of our wrongs is when we begin our Fifth Step, we'll know by the time we finish-because of making our admissions to another human being. What we can't see, our listener can, and he or she will help us sort out what we need to accept as our responsibility and what we don't.
Most of us asked someone to be our sponsor before we began formally working the steps, and have been developing a relationship with that person ever since. For most of us, our sponsor willbe the "another human being" we choose to hear our Fifth Step He or she will help us separate the things that were not our responsibility from the things that were. The relationship we have been building with our sponsor will give us the trust we need to have in him or her. The therapeutic value of one addict helping another is often powerfully demonstrated when our sponsor shares details from his or her own inventory as we share ours. This goes a long way toward reassuring us that we are not unique.
The trust we must have in the person who is to hear our Fifth Step goes beyond simply being assured that he or she will keep our confidences. We need to trust that our listener can respond appropriately to what we are sharing. One of the primary reasons that so many of us find ourselves choosing our sponsor as the person who will listen to our Fifth Step is because he or she understands what we're doing and therefore knows just what kind of support we need during this process. Also, if our sponsor is our listener, it will help promote continuity when we work the following steps. Still, if for any reason we choose someone else to hear our Fifth Step admission, his or her "qualifications" are the same ones we would look for in our sponsor: an ability to be supportive without minimizing our responsibility, someone who can provide a steadying influence if we begin to feel overwhelmed during our Fifth Step - in short, someone with compassion, integrity, and insight.
What qualities does my listener have that are attractive to me?
How will his or her possession of these qualities help me make my admissions more effectively?
For most of us, developing an honest relationship is something new. We're very good at running away from relationships the first time someone tells us a painful truth. We're also good at having polite, distant interactions with no real depth. The Fifth Step helps us to develop honest relationships. We tell the truth about who we are - then, the hard part: we listen to the response. Most of us have been terrified of having a relationship like this. The Fifth Step gives us a unique opportunity to try such a relationship in a safe context. We can be pretty much assured that we won't be judged.
Am I willing to trust the person who is to hear my Fifth Step?
What do I expect from that person?
How will working the Fifth Step help me begin to develop new ways of having relationships?
I was a loner Group member,,,
i got together with one and took my 5th.
Now i choose to call her Goddess Diana,,
Diana.J,,, my recovering sister for US heard me out,,,
basically when her Guidance came,,, it gave me a new attitude,,,
for the first time in my life fear was gone and I had a real feeling of connection with God(ess)....
And yes it also required a heart felt admission to my self too,,, and a decaision to not conciously adopt those same attitudes in my life again !!!
that old addictive logic was replaced with N.ew A.ttitudes,
in fact N.A. stands for that !!!New Attitudes !!!.
Fifth Step Prayer
God,
My inventory has shown me who I am, yet I ask for Your help
in admitting my exact nature to another person and to You.
Assure me and be with me in this Step,
for without this Step I cannot progress in my recovery.
The exact nature of our wrongs
Another way to ensure that our Fifth Step is "not simply a reading of Step Four" is to focus on what we are supposed to be admitting: the exact nature of our wrongs. There is a diversity of experience in our fellowship about what, precisely, is "the exact nature of our wrongs. Most of us agree that, in working Step Five, we should be focusing our attention on what's behind the patterns of our addiction and the reasons we acted out in the ways we did. Identifying the exact nature of our wrongs is often something that happens while we're sharing our inventory. Sometimes the repetition of the same type of situation will reveal the exact nature of that situation. Why do we, for example, keep choosing to involve ourselves with people who don't have our best interests at heart? Why do we keep approaching every relationship we have as though our very lives depended on having the upper hand? Why do we feel threatened by new experiences, and so keep avoiding them? Finding the common thread in our own patterns will lead us right to the exact nature of our wrongs.
At some point in this process, we will probably begin calling certain patterns of behavior our "character defects." Though it won't be until the Sixth Step that we begin an in-depth examination of how each one of our defects plays a role in keeping us sick, it certainly won't hurt to allow this knowledge to begin forming in us now.
How does the exact nature of my wrongs differ from my actions?
Why do I need to admit the exact nature of my wrongs, and not just the wrongs themselves?
I will never ever forget my first ever 4th and 5th step ....
I had an awesome older member of our fellowship for my guide through our program and was guided for my first ever time through the steps online.....when it came time for my 5th step I was asked to find a member of my local fellowship whom I trusted to share my 4th &5 th step with......see trust is a Huge thing to me and back 4 years ago I didnt trust that many ppl in the fellowship (gossip and chaos and drama etc) so I found my HG member who is a Gay man and he gave me 3 days at 4 hours a day of his time and his ESH and his compassion and empthy cuz i was kinda nervous and had no idea what was fixing to happen.....little did I know of the true freedom that was about to desend on me......
we sat on a beach and prayed together and invited our HPs in.....for the first time in my entire life on this earth , I felt what true and real freedom is as I took a deep breathe and just let my HP in and shared my stuff with this man....and he knew how to be a particapte in hearing 5th steps cuz he just went with the flow and when we came through all my fears and resentments and anger etc and moved on to assets, he shared with me the assets he saw in me that I didnt mention...cuz I guess I couldnt see them or was afraid to see them , you know still trying to find that self acceptance that we all as addicts deal with.......on the end of the 3rd day we got done with my 5th step as the beach NA meeting was starting......and after it was over and I came home, simply exhausted and just filled with emotions and feelings I never had before, I felt ( and I know this may sound crazy) so much freedom that i felt like i was walking on air , I found my bed and went to sleep feeling like a huge ugly part of me had been removed...all the shame and pain of my past had gone when I was on the beach with my HP and my dear HG member.....Freedom .
Thank you for letting me share...
(HUgs)))),JudyO
My sponsor Tom pointed out a life saving differance,, something i use till this day on the 10th Step,,,
he said thers wrong,,, but the EXACT NATURE OF OUR WRONG is another matter entirely !!!
So whats the differance?
Its like to take your money without you knowing it is stealing and that definately is wrong !!! and addmitting just that will take me no further,,, indeed it will only make me feel guilty and more seriously ashamed and unforgiving !!!
So I need to get that the exact nature of that wrong is another thing= DISHONESTY !!! And this is what i need to admit !!
And unless and until i admit the exact nature of that wrong thers no DELIVERANCE !!!
But then onto the 6th to know whats the differance twixt "WRONG" and "DEFECT "!!
However i know that freedom comes from admission to self,God and to another the
EXACT NATURE of wrong !!!Just a reading of wrongdoing will not suffice !!
-- Edited by raman at 11:47, 2007-08-02
Spiritual principles
In the Fifth Step, we will focus on trust, courage, self-honesty, and commitment.
Practicing the spiritual principle of trust is essential if we are to get through the Fifth Step. As mentioned above, we will probably have some experience with our sponsor that allows us to trust him or her enough to go ahead with this step; but what about the more profound issues that arise when we wonder if working this step will really do any good? We have to trust a process as well as another person. The connection between the Fifth Step and our spiritual development isn't always clear to us. This doesn't mean that the connection is any less real, but it may make it harder for us to trust the process.
Do I believe that working the Fifth Step will somehow make my life better? How?
Courage is one principle we'll have to practice just to get started on this step. We'll probably need to continue drawing on our courage periodically throughout our work on this step. When we replace the phone on its hook just as we are about to call our sponsor for an appointment to make our admissions, we're feeling fear and we need to practice courage. When we're sharing our inventory and we see a paragraph that we just can't tell anyone about, we need to face that moment of fear with courage and go ahead with sharing all of our inventory. When we've just shared something excruciatingly painful, and our feelings of vulnerability are so overwhelming that we want to shut down before we hear what our sponsor has to say, we're at a defining moment in our recovery and we need to choose the courageous path. Doing so will influence the future course of our lives. Each time we feel fear, we remind ourselves that giving in to it has rarely had anything but negative consequences in our lives, and doing so this time won't be any different. Such a reminder should be sufficient to motivate us to gather our courage.
What are some of the ways in which I can find the courage I need to work this step?
How does practicing the principle of courage in working this step affect my whole recovery?
Have I set a time and place for my Fifth Step? When and where?
Practicing the principle of self-honesty is essential when we admit to ourselves the exact nature of our wrongs. Just as we mustn't disassociate ourselves from our emotions simply because we're afraid of our listener's response, so we can't afford to shut down our own reactions. We must allow ourselves to experience the natural and human reaction to the subject under discussion: our lives as addicts. Our lives have been sad. We've missed out on a lot because of our addiction. We've hurt people we loved because of our addiction. These realizations are painful. However, if we pay close attention, we'll probably recognize another feeling that's beginning to form in the wake of the pain: hope.
We've finally stopped using over our feelings, running away from our feelings, and shutting down because of our feelings; now, for the first time, we have a chance to walk through our feelings, even the painful ones, with courage. Doing so will, in the long run, make us feel better about ourselves. This is one of the paradoxes that we often find in recovery. What begins in pain ends in joy and serenity.
How have I avoided self-honesty in the past? What am I doing to practice it now?
How is a more realistic view of myself connected to humility?
How does practicing the principle of self-honesty help me accept myself?
The principle of commitment is demonstrated by the action we take in this step. Many of us have made so-called "commitments" in our lives, commitments to which we had no intention of sticking to in tough times; our "commitments" were made solely for the sake of convenience. With each step we've taken in the program of NA, we've deepened our real, practical commitment to the program. Getting a sponsor, working the steps, finding a home group and going to its meetings - each one of these actions demonstrates that we're committed to our recovery in a practical, meaningful way.
How does sharing my inventory with my sponsor further my commitment to the NA program?
Moving on
One of the many benefits we get from working Step Five is a sense of self-acceptance. We clearly recognize who we are today, and accept ourselves without reservation. Just because we're lacking in certain areas doesn't mean we're worthless. We begin to see that we have both assets and defects. We're capable of great good - and of inflicting great harm. There are aspects of our personalities that make us very special. Our experiences, even the negative ones, have often contributed to the development of the very best parts of us. For the first time, we're able to acknowledge that we're okay just as we are, right at this moment. But accepting ourselves as we are today doesn't mean we can relax and stop striving for improvement. True self-acceptance includes accepting what we're lacking. It wouldn't be self-acceptance if we believed we had no further growing to do - it would be denial. So we acknowledge what we're lacking, and we make a commitment to work on it. If we want to be more compassionate, we work on it by practicing the principle of compassion. If we want to be better educated, we take the time to learn. If we want to have more friends, we take the time to develop our relationships.
How has working Step Five increased my humility and self-acceptance?
As we finish Step Five, we may feel a sense of relief; we've unburdened ourselves by sharing what we previously had put a lot of energy into hiding or suppressing. It is true that our "defects die in the light of exposure." Exposure to the light brings a sense of freedom that we feel no matter what the outer circumstances of our lives may be like.
All of our relationships begin to change as a result of working this step. We especially need to acknowledge how much our relationship with ourselves, with a Higher Power, and with other people have changed:
How has my relationship with a Higher Power changed as a result of working the Fifth Step?
How has my relationship with my sponsor changed as a result of working the Fifth Step?
How has my view of myself changed as a result of working this step?
To what extent have I developed love and compassion for myself and others?
Along with a sense of relief, our weariness with our character defects has probably reached a peak. This will translate easily into a state of being entirely ready - just what we need to begin Step Six!
Im very clear that the Fifth Step is practical=
the EXACT NATURE of the wrong is what I need to admit !!!
Not just the wrongdoing,,, but the exact nature of it !
And indeed after admitting it to the NA member who took my 5th Step and to God of my understanding,, I have a clean vision thats it begins with the thoughts !!!!
So therefore I conclude that the exact nature of the wrong i did came from wrong thinking,, and therfore that wrong thought is indeed the exact nature of the wrong !!
Once again I thank my guide of that time Diana,,,
and my sponsor of that time Tom.D,, for pointing that out in the first place.
I wasnt able to do the Fifth with him as he was in a bad stae of health and my internet connectivity with him living in some remote part of the US was difficult !!!
So it was Diana all the way on the Fifth !!!!!
-- Edited by raman at 22:23, 2007-08-16
some 12 years later ,,, I still have it with me !!!
One of the oldtimers called Guru in my hometown Madras asked me to retain my inventory stuff (even the daily inventories) and not to destroy these writings without telling me why. I kept them all for almost a year and had forgotten all about it.
One day, I was complaining a lot in one of my meeting shares that recovery sucks, that everything seems to be going downhill and that I'm losing interest as nothing seems to be happening much. This oldtimer quietly heard all this, took me to the beach nearby after the meeting for a walk, and listened more to my frustrations and hopelessness. At the end of it all, he asked me about the writing stuff if I have them all still? Then he asked me to go back home and read them all...
I did, and then I could clearly see how much in me has changed, I could see all the miracles and gifts that I have received in my recovery when I looked at how I was and how I felt back then when I wrote this stuff as a newcomer and where I am at the time of reading it all that night... I was restored to sanity instantly, and a sudden feeling of peace and contentment enveloped me... I woke up the next morning with an exciting feeling, and kept hearing myself say through that day, "Recovery IS Happening, all the time!"...
hes an old NA friend,, we met last in Imphal for the IRF meeting(as SIRSCONA was then known).
that incidentally was the last time the NE Region of India sat at an Indian Regional Forum meeting,,,
in that meeting it was decided they will split and form their own Region,,,,
at that time i had just about arrived at the Fifth !!!
lots of love to you all, fellow recoverers, florence
please keep praying, maybe you have special powers!!