4: Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Oh, how I feared this one. I have always considered myself my own worst enemy and harshest critic. And I dreaded doing this one because I felt that once I got started that I would never stop bashing myself, beating myself up.
So after procrastinating about this step forever, I finally went to the workbook and found that it didn't have to go as I had feared. And that's because of a key principle: blamelessness.
We're not here to indict, not at the forums, not in the on-line meetings, and not in Step 4. It's not about retribution and restitution. It's simply but fully acknowledging what was done to us and what we've done. We're not concerned with blame at this step. We simply seek full knowledge and comprehension.
From the Yellow Workbook: "Simply recounting the past is not always enough to bring about healing and self-forgiveness. Without knowing the meaning of the abandonment encoded in the past, the adult child is doomed to repeat it. The unexamined past becomes the future of the next generation."
Because this is the procrastination step, I'm going to start with a workbook exercise in this first post to try to get you started right now. Below, find the Laundry List. Note the ones you identify with and write how they apply to you.
We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.
We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
We became addicted to excitement.
We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."
We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.
Here's how I answered this:
Number 2 showed itself in my tendency to try to warp myself to my woman's expectations in order to keep the relationship going rather than being myself. If I was with a woman that liked, say, the Atlantic Monthly, then I would start reading the Atlantic Monthly. There was a time when my first girlfriend broke up with me that I had to actively rediscover what was me and what I had added to me in order to get along with her.
Number 3 applies, except frightened is not quite the right word. The best replacement that means how I felt it is Kryptonite. Anger and personal criticism weakened me, it robbed me of my vitality and resolve. There was one particular son of a female dog in radio who would ride me so hard that on my lunch hour I would drive someplace relatively far from the radio station and just cry.
Number 4 happened in a couple of different ways. There was a time that I got briefly serious with an active alcoholic in a relationship. She was a great gal when sober but a complete mess when drunk. And I was seriously trying to figure out how to make it work. (After all, my mother made it "work" with my dad.) Her dumping me for questioning the viability of the relationship may have been the biggest favor ever done me. The other way it happened is that I found a woman with rage issues to basically "play the part of my mother" in my family drama.
Number 6 has manifested itself over and over again. I am constantly doing things for other people without making sure I have time for myself. I do homework every night with my granddaughter, not at all an easy thing to do. I thoroughly cleaned the ex-girlfriend's house for her twice and seemingly always had a chore to do when I visited.
Number 8 tends to show when I am participating in internet forums. I would post a strong opinion. Someone would counter. I would furiously type back again. I would refresh the page over and over again, looking for a response so I could pounce and immediately defend my position.
Number 10 is the corked bottle phenomenon. I try not to feel things because when I feel them it hurts too bad. Feelings are irrational and uncontrollable. There was a reason I found Star Trek's Vulcanism fascinating.
Number 11 I have tried to explain to people is split for me. I am easily my own harshest critic. It was a fear of my eviscerating myself that kept me from completing even this simple exercise. However, my self esteem is not really low. You at this point would point out my unlovability problem as evidence to the contrary. But I would argue that my belief of unlovability was a conclusion based on evidence and not a belief that there was something wrong with me. I guess I am saying that I was unlovable, but that was the world's problem and not mine.
Number 12 is the relationship addiction that I have talked about several times here. I have done a number of questionable things to keep a relationship alive. I somehow need to have tangible proof of my lovability in order to believe it.
Number 13 is kind of self-evident. We would not be in the program if we did not start acting like one.
Number 14 applies to me too. I am a behind the scenes kind of guy. I tend to keep balls rolling once they start, but rarely am I the guy to get things started, to make things happen.
LindaO said
Jan 8, 2012
I will add my part to this step shortly. I just quickly wanted to add a part from the workbook also "If we skip this Step or STep five, we risk relapsing into unhelathy dependence and self harming behaviour. An ACA relapse always features a recreation of the fear, self hate, and abandonment from our childhood.
I feel that I have been away from the boards for only about 10 days and I was relapsing into controlling behaviour and emotional manipulation of my partner. Luckily for me, I could identify this and I have tried to stop myself. He started to look at me a bit funny a few days ago and I thought... woops.. here we go again.
I have not done this step before so I have reviewed 1 - 3 and I am gonna give this one a go... I think it may be alot of work
ASpaceOdyssey said
Jan 9, 2012
James and Linda, what a huge relief to see that you have started in on this, and James, for providing some structure. I don't have the workbook as yet and I have been dreading this step, too. Will be back after pondering. These are huge questions.
-- Edited by ASpaceOdyssey on Monday 9th of January 2012 12:24:30 AM
Iris lover of dogs said
Jan 9, 2012
I just jumped into the step process today. I'm jumping in at 4 (because that is where you are today), but I have done a lot of the work of 1-3 outside of MIP. I enjoyed reading other's stories of self-realization and work, so I want to share my own. I would love it if people have any comments or advice for me.
1. We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures. I am very careful about making new friends, or letting people close to me. And my gut tells me it is because I anticipate that they will be a lot of work! I think this relates to # 2 I have grown up being a people pleaser, and it has worn me down. Now I closely guard my energy, and prefer to spend time in solitude or with animals. Not really sure what to do about this. 2. We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process. I am still trying to absorb this one into my heart. I know it to be true I have a specific familial role: the helper, the one that never burdens others with problems of her own, competent, hard working, etc. Over many years I am 40 now - I have given a huge part of myself trying to help my family and AH husband in all sorts of different ways. Over the years, I have tapped myself dry, and I feel empty. Running on fumes. But there is still a part of me that doesnt get this. It feels good to help people. Shouldnt we all help each other? But, I do realize that help should come from love and be freely given, with no expectations attached. And I do realize that I have expected returns for my niceness over the years, returns which have not been forthcoming! Making me resentful and bitter. So, I need to always remind myself to be honest with myself. Ask myself why? Is this really what I want or need? It helps me to focus on self. What do I need and want. But, I admit, I still struggle with this. The self focus feels good liberating, energizing, healing . . . and selfish. And that brings up memories of how horrible it is to have to live with selfish people (like AHs), and I question myself. Am I being true to myself and honest, and healthy or am I being selfish?
3. We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism. I have had this problem for a long time since I was a little girl, and it is related to #2. I would try so hard often sacrificing my own wants/needs to do what I thought needed to be done to make things right. So then, if a person came back and criticized me, I would get very angry! How dare they criticize me when I had worked, and worried, and tried so hard!! It felt SO UNFAIR; I felt like a VICTIM. I have improved in this way in the last couple of years, by taking responsibility for my own needs and wants. Reminding myself to give freely or dont give at all. And always to remember that everybody else is human just like me (compassion; empathy) They dont know the answers, and they make mistakes, and it isnt always about me. This has helped me feel less like a victim. I used to feel sort of like life was a game and I a player. If I played the game with enough skill and intensity, then I should be a winner, right? But this is playing god . . . thinking that that I can control situations and circumstances. It has been very freeing very healing to realize that this is not the case. That it is not my responsibility to make everything right. Having this responsibility coming off my shoulders felt good. I gladly give it to a HP. But I still slip back into this role all the time where I believe that my supreme effort is required, expected that is wrong not to give it to make things right. Like if only I am willing to be self-sacrificing, I can make things better. So, to help me with this, when I get that feeling, the compulsion to DO SOMETHING, I try to turn it toward myself. What do I need to do for myself, internally or externally, to make things right for me? This helps tremendously. 4. We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs. Found one and married him (it only manifested years after I married him). Though I married a man that couldnt be more different in personality and looks from my father, I am living with an AH that doesnt work, exactly like my mother. 5. We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships. Interestingly, now that I am fully aware of the drama triangle and the victim role, and understand when I am within the drama triangle, I can look back and see some of my mistakes. For instance, during one of my early dates with my now AH husband (back in 1994!) he tearfully told me that he just wanted someone to love him; life was hard, and he hadnt found that. Ah, I was needed I could do that for him, give him all the love he could ever handle! That was my exultant reaction. Now I see it as an automated response: the relationship felt good to me because I was needed (i.e. he was a victim of life, and I could heal the sad wounds that fate had dealt him). But in return (I also now realize), I expected him to be my rescuer when I felt the victim. So, we had a nice little drama triangle going. This also ties into 6 give me responsibility Ill take it, it feeds me, my sense of identity. 6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc. HUGE for me. Responsibility FEEDS me. Though I have made some progress in understanding why (I want control), and have been able to step back and acknowledge my fundamental lack of control, and give it to a HP, I still seek responsibility. It is a love-hate relationship. As I eagerly take on that next thing, I feel tired. It is like I am eating a food with little nutritional value hungry for it, but it doesnt feed me. Still struggling with this a lot. 7. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others. Yes. I am trying to deal with this by self-examination every time I feel guilty. I also talk to a counselor about this regularly. When I feel guilty I ask myself why? Where is the feeling coming from? I try to track down the emotion and look at it with logic. This helps a lot, because I can then see that it is ok for me not to feel guilty for meeting my own needs. 8. We became addicted to excitement. I dont think I have this one. I am adrenalin-averse. But Im not sure. Maybe I just dont recognize it in myself yet. 9. We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue." Yes. I already talked about this in #5. I think this is a part of living in the drama triangle, and wanting to either play rescuer, victim, or persecutor. 10. We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial). I think Im still doing this. Just reading the question makes my head feel fuzzy. I do go to a counselor once per week, and try to talk about whatever has been troubling me the most that week. Hopefully Ill thaw out over time. Recommendations welcome. It helps to talk to others, as in MIP web. 11. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem. Ive never felt like I had a low self esteem in the sense of Ive always felt capable, competent. But, I guess the low self esteem comes into play for me in the sense that I tend to feel that everybody elses needs are more important than mine. In fact, I often catch myself thinking in terms of others having needs, and me having wants. Self-sacrifice for the sake of others I just expect of myself. Is this because I feel less than those others? Maybe. 12. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us. I dont think this one applies to me so much. I like being alone. 13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink. A shocking reality check for me. Because it is true. 14. Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors. When I decided (~ 1 month ago) to separate from my AH, I wrote a letter. It said I was tired of wishing, wanting, waiting, hoping for things to change. All those things are reactions. So what I was really saying, realizing, taking to heart, is that I dont want to do this any-more. Want to stop reacting, and act for myself. I want to stop structuring my life around my AH. I choose this. I know some others decide to stay, and achieve this step while still in a relationship, but I chose to end it. ________________________________________
LindaO said
Jan 9, 2012
I wrote a really long reply and then I got kicked out.... must be something wrong with my internet
I am not going to type it all out again but basically I had something to say about most of the traits.
I identify with 1,3-7, 9 - 13
doesn't leave much that I don't think applies to me.
I read that list all those months ago and just sat with my mouth open. How could I identify with that? My Dad went to AA when I was 8. My family have told me I was not affected by his drinking cos I was so young when he stopped. I had the church and sober Dad.... (all my siblings are much older than I am).
Obviously it still 'stuck' for me. Yes he didn't drink, or bash Mum or me, he was still a dry drunk for many many years. We didn't really communicate much except for arguing. so yes... I am an adult child and I can accept that.
It has made me do some bad bad things.
-- Edited by LindaO on Monday 9th of January 2012 04:39:10 AM
LindaO said
Jan 9, 2012
Hi guys
This is a worksheet from the yellow workbook in relation to this post so far.
An example of how to fill it out is thus;
Event: Father yelled at me or blaming me for a istake
Cause: He said I didn't listen
HOw I felt: Afraid/physically small
Inner child reaction: Know in stomach/brathing difficutly
Type of trait developed: Fear of authority figure and criticism
I have read everyone's posts so far and want to thank you all for sharing. Your shares help me to work through my own feelings and thoughts.
We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.
I think I fit both of these traits but more the isolation. I seem to prefer being alone than with people but I actaully don't LIKE that. I have always wished I was more social and less anxious about attending functions with others. I would go out for sports in school and make the teasm and then quit when I would find out we had to travel somewhere. I was always afraid to go anywhere with others - I had no control to return when I watned to. I just was so FEARFUL all the time. Yuck.
2. We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
Definately have this one. I often am not sure who I am. I do have my own interests and they drive me and I take part in them regardless of who I am seeing but...I often put my own needs or wants on the back burner either afraid to express my true needs/wants for fear of the other person's reaction or I do things I don't really want to do fearing standing up for myself or what I want. I learned that you don't challenge or stand up to your partner/spouse or they will just leave or drink more.
3. We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
I am just realizing now waht a hard time I have with personal criticism. I think partly because I do feel like such a screw up with some things I have done. So...even though I get angry for someone critisizing me...I feel that way deep down inside but I still want to defend myself.
4. We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
I know now that I choose people who will always abandon me. Those are the people I am attracted to. How I find them and become attracted to them so quickly, I haven't figured out. It almost seems to be happening behind the scenes.
5. We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
I didn't realize I did this in my personal/love relationships until recently. I always felt like I was being victimized by their crappy behavior but I raelize now that when you continue to stay or continue to take them back (for years at a time)...you are playing the victim b/c how can you expect anything other than being mistrated if they have been mistreating you the entire time?
6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
Yes...I have this by almost always putting my needs/wants or what I know is right after someone else - but I tend to do this only with love interets and my family. I have a good hold on my professional life and with most friends (though I wasnt' always good at this with friends).
7. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
Yes yes yes..how can we act on our own behalf without then feeling bad about standing up for ourselves? We don't often...and I suffer from this also. I have gotten better about it - knowing it is OK to allow others to take care of themselsve..but it still makes me feel badly at times...guilty.
8. We became addicted to excitement. I am addicted to excitement through chaos and drama in my persoanl love relationships. I am not a thrill seeker otherwise but I recoginize now that unless there is turmoil or some sort of edgyness to my personal relationships, I am bored. I don't know how to be in a healhty relationship.
9. We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."
I learned this from the enmeshment that occured with me taking care of my mother..or trying to as much as a child can. I loved her, of course...but I think I pitited her at some point and have continued to try to rescue others who I think need rescuing...or I give them excuses for how they grew up and I think...well...she does that becuase of this or that..and I need to keep giving her second, third and twentieth chances because of that.
10. We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
Stuffed them, yes but boy do they play out in real life in the confusion and havoc that plays out in my personal life and the drpession and anxity that I often don't even know the cause of.
11. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
Big time. I never feel "right", good enough or healthy and I can beat myself up mercilessly for feelign like such a PERSONAL failure. I am ashamed for the people I have hurt in the past (healthy loves I found but then mistrated - prefering to choose people who would then just mistreat me instead) and that contirbutes to my low self-esteem. I know I am a good person and I have acheieved much in my life that I am proud of...but I think there is a deep seated self-hate for wishing I was just different in so many ways.
12. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
I have this trait for certain but have gotten better about recognizing it as I have gotten older. I was a slave to the overwhelming emotions of preventing losing someone when I was younger. The feelings were WAY more powerful and since I had zero knowledge of what was goign on...i was simply driven by them and would do ANYTHING to avoide being left. It wasn't losing the person so much as it was that my world feel apart if I lost tha control and didn't have that person. Through knowledge and maturation I have been able to control these overwhelcmiong feelings but I still struggle with the deep fear and ewmotional upset that they bring.
13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
I agree with this wholeheartedly and belive I have mmany of the characteristics and have, at times, wondered if I had or could have a drinking problem.
14. Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.
Nealry 95% of my life is a reaction. I always wait for the other person's move to decided what I will do..and this makes me feel like I'm in emotional jail becuase I am always either waiting for the other person to do smoething or I am afraid to make my own decision for fear of how the other person will react. I am afriad of being punihsed by making my own decisions...b/c ultimately I will FEEL punished by how the other person reacts whether they are actually punishing me or not. its all in my head.
Wulfenia said
Jan 9, 2012
1.We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.
Yes, it is true about me. While I longed for human company, I was scared of people and did not know how exactl I was supposed to behave. I hav a sister that is only 1 year and 4 months younger and when we were very young my Mom used to send us to our room each time we had visitors at home. She was very good at it, she did not have to say a word, she showed us with her eyes that she wanted us to dissapear to our room and called it a very good education.
2.We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
Before recovery kicked in, I cannot recall to have had done anything just for the fun of it. Everything I did was to get atention, approval. I was a heroe, a people pleaser, I was capable of giving my last slice of bread to someone else. I cannot tell that I lost my identity in the proces... I am not sure I ever developed one as a child. There was no place and no time for me to be me. I needed to keep people around me happy so that they keep me alive.
3.We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
Angry people are still my worst triggers. In the same time, I got beter with criticism. I learned a lot about it and why it has efects on my emotions and how to control my reactions to criticism. I still have lots and lots of lessons to learn.
4.We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
I was a smoker. I married an adict.
5.We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
As a child I WAS a victim. I didn't have any sort of options. As an adult I tend to be unpleased with my living situation no matter what that is. If I am single I don't like it. If I am in a relationship I don't like it. And so on.
6.We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
Oh yes, for almost my entire life I was convinced that I had responsability for everything possible and impossible. I knew everything better and needed to correct what thers were doing wrong. Today I don't care what others do. When I start obsessing about people I know that something in my own life is not ok. Sometimes switching is not a problem once I gain clarity. Other times I cannot do anything against it and I obsess and obsess until I cannot do it anymore and eventually I get tired and stop.
7.We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
This is something that recently changed. I am able to stand up for myself without worrying for others as I know they will get over it one way or another.
8.We became addicted to excitement.
I must say I don't create it anymore. But I dance along if I hear the music playing!
9.We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."
Did this all my life. I stopped. I can have compassion, show it but I do not have to save anyone anymore.
10.We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
I certainly do not feel for things I should. I do not love my Dad. My sister does. I do not love or hate my Mom. My sister does. I do not feel anything for the country I was born in. Not one bit of nostalgy. A lot of people in my situation have very strong bonds with it. Not me.
11.We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
Oh yes I judge myself in each small little insignificant detail! I can be my worst enemy who would not forgive a look or a gesture. I do a lot of self-esteem work and try to focus on the good in me.
12.We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
I am not terrified of abandonment anymore. I lived for 4 years on my own and I did pretty well. I tell to myslf very often that people who abandon me do not deserve me.
13.Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
All the books I read say that alcoholics are very sensitive persons. And so am I. I need to get stronger and care less about people and things that are not important to me.
14.Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.
Depends. In my home I have no problems taking big decisions. At my jobs I was more of a follower.
Almost every dysfunctional family has a story or image that family members present to friends and outsiders. For example, "The Rodriguez family believes in education and challenge. We never give up", the family says. Another family says "The Wilson family works hard, and we stick together no matter what comes our way."
Beneath the story line is the reality of the dysfunctional home. There are secrets, inconsistencies, and wrongs that are contrary to the family image. Family denial supports the family image and denies the hidden story. In this exercise, we ask you to list family secrets. The secrets can involve attempts by parents to hide addiction, inappropriate touching, mishandling of money, lying, and infidelity. In some cases, seemingly insignificant events can also be secrets.
List all the memories, incidents, and messages that were considered family secrets or inconsistnet with the family image.
You may or may not feel comfortable listing them here on this site. For me, I am not comfortable doing that, but I will do my own list and perhaps show my psychologist. It is just another exercise from the book. We don't 'have to' share our answers here.
-- Edited by LindaO on Tuesday 10th of January 2012 12:50:51 AM
flopadopilus said
Jan 11, 2012
1.We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.~ So very true for me whether it was teachers or bosses, always fearful and not trusting of them since I had no stability in my childhood home with love or protection from my own parents.
2.We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process. ~Yes, I would do just about anything to be accepted by those I loved and could enmesh myself into any person or cause I believed in.
3.We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism. ~Yes, my Mom was very angry and critical and so was my exAH, you would think I would have gone another direction, but sadly I stuck to what I knew and married someone who misused and mistreated me just like my family of origin.
4.We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs. ~ yes, food, sex and yes drama(adrenaline) too. Work in emergency medical services and love it also.
5.We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships. ~ At times, but now I see myself mostly as a survivor!
6.We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc. ~ Yes again, I used to be the queen of distraction and misplaced blame on anything and everything. Now I own it and deal with it as I see fit. I still hate when I feel I fail someone, but I am learning to be human and okay about it :~)
7.We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others. ~ Very true, but I am learning to put myself first and discovering my needs and learning to fulfill them.
8.We became addicted to excitement. ~Ummm, yeah! I am trying the less dramatic life and relationships and not even as bored about it these days. I used to think I had to learn to knit and would make everyone full body suits with how bored I was in the beginning.
9.We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue." ~ Tried that and realized I don't want to be in those relationships any longer.
10.We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial). ~ Still uncovering my eyes of the layers of blinders I have put on to survive a lot of trauma, but I feel freer and lighter every layer I become aware of and work through. I still get angry about my past, but I work through it and set it free as it reveals itself to me.
11.We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem. ~ I am still my toughest critic and am a work in progress, but I like who I am and what I stand for. I am a good role model for my kids.
12.We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us. ~ This used to apply to me, but now I choose to be single and work on myself without the distraction of dating. I will at some point feel healthy enough and meet the right person, but am currently not focused on being with anyone and love that I am okay with being alone and working on me.
13.Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink. ~ Absolutely I became almost crazy trying to control my exAH and everyhting around me and I bottomed out hard. A year later I am doing great and am working on not obsessing about things and handing them to my HP (God).
14.Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors. ~ I do tend to want to react to people, but am learning to think first and or get to ahold of my sponsor first and change the cycle of craziness. I love the saying it's none of my business what people think of me. And to realize I am dealing with some sick people in my family that I can't change and then I go into the serenity prayer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LindaO said
Jan 13, 2012
Exercise three from yellow book for those who want it. Shame inventory
Excerpt (is that the right word?) from book: In ACA, we believe shame claims the Number One spot. Shame was on the scene before abandonment and they serve as a fear based launching pad for an outward search for love and security. Shame blinds us to the fact that love is inside each of us waiting to be discovered. That means we carry a deep sense of inadequacy, embarrassment, or uniqueness without having to interact with another person.
The exercise
List incidents in which you felt shamed by your parents or caregivers. eg: abuse, or calm statements about appearance, speech, dress and mannerisms, hurtful comments veiled as jokes or teasing.
The difference between appropriate parenting and shame is how you feel about the act or coments. Shame makes you feel isolated, inferior, and unwanted. Discipline from loving parents can cause discomfort, but you still belive you have worth despite your mistakes.
Write examples of shame and include as many details of the incidents as possible, including your age, where you were, what was said, and how your body reacted to the shame.
Do you want me to continue with the exercises every couple of days? We won't get through them all in the time before step five but I can do a couple more if you like? Let me know please
JamesCT said
Jan 13, 2012
Please do, Linda. I was going to put one here today myself.
LindaO said
Jan 13, 2012
Exercise 4 - because it is so closely related to exercise three
Abandonment inventory
This can be a physical abandonment in which we were left with friends or relatvies or day care centres while they practiced thier dependence. Some have been left alone for days. It can also involve shaming statements as you learned in previous exercise.
Write the times you felt abandoned by your parents or care giver. List your age, the location of the abandonment, and any other details you can remember.
LindaO said
Jan 16, 2012
Exercise 5 - Harms Inventory: Generational Transfer
In this exercise we inventroy how we have abandoned or neglected other people in our lives including our children. OUr words, flawed thinking, and reactions to life transfer dysfunction to hte next generation. The guilt we might experience in this exercise is helathy guilt. We have the support ofour group, sponsor, HP as we face the consequences of our behaviour.
Those I have harmed, abandoned, neglected, mistreated
What I did, my behaviour
Results, or memory of incident
My memory of having been similarly harmed as a child
LindaO said
Jan 16, 2012
gentleness break
The ACA 4th step involves a balanced look at our family of origin and our own behaviour and thoughts. The emotions, event and self blame stirred up by this step can seem overwhelming for some. As you work 4, we urge you to be gentle with yourself. Remember you are not alone, and you have not done or thought anything that someone else has not done or thought. You have character assets and abilities that help balance disturbing aspects of your life.
We ask you to balance any shameful or fearful memories that might arise with the knowledge that you have honesty and courage in your life. Adult children have an inner strength that has always been there. Remain focused during this process, but take gentleness breaks and stay in contact wtih your sponsor or counselor.
Promise 11 - With help from our ACA support group, we will slowly release our dysfunctional behaviours.
Fourth step prayer: Divine creator. Help me to be rigorously honest and to care for myself during this step. Let me practice gentleness and not abandon myself on this spiritual journey. Help me remember that I have attribues, and that I can ask for forgiveness. I am not alone. I can ask for help. Amen
LindaO said
Feb 16, 2012
I am starting to wonder if going to a psychologist and being diagnosed for Borderline Personality Disorder (high functioning) is partially this step.
I admitted lots of things, I looked at all the bad that has happened and all the bad I have done because of it.
I acknowledged a sickness that I have and I am willing to address the issues.
I didn't lay blame and be a victim.... I opened up and took my mask off to a person in confidence.
It was scarey and hard.
I did it myself first and then told someone (step 5)
Now I am recieving treatment for it from the psych and from ACA and a spiritual healer.
Hmmm any thoughts on if you think that sounds about right for a Step 4 and 5?
JamesCT said
Feb 17, 2012
I would certainly count insights gained by you of that nature as part of Step 4 myself.
James7 said
Mar 6, 2012
Hi all.
Step 4: "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."
Doing this Step was one of the toughest things I did when I entered the rooms of Alanon last year and CoDA some twenty years ago.
Now I feel that my HP is calling me to do this Step in ACA. So I will give it a try here.
1. We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures. When I get stressed out I still isolate myself especially from authority figures. I dislike and distrust authority figures especially those who are my "superiors". Because of the physical abuse that I suffered when I was a child under my grandparents and the neglect from my parents, I am still wary of authority figures. They never act for my benefit but theirs or I only end up pleasing them at the cost of my sanity.
2. We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process. When I was growing up, I thought that if I really behave as a perfect child, my parents will not abandon me. And when I was left to the care of my grandparents, my grandfather will not beat me up if I behaved well and be obedient enough. I didn't work though. Approval seeking for me started way back then and it's really hard to kick this trait out of my system. Yes, I lost my identity in the process.
3. We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism. Frightened of angry people? I'm freaking scared of them! I react to them in one of two ways. Either I cower under them or I confront them back with the same force of anger that they come at me with. Or a third way, i just let them step all over me. Yes, I also have a problem with personal criticism--it stings me. But my program helps me learn to QTIP--Quit Taking It Personally.
4. We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs. Yeah, this trait is mine too. My sick abandonment issues are in my sick workaholic trait. On the outside I'm a successful administrator in a large non-profit organization and I'm always promoted to my next level of accomplishment. But inside all this busyness betrays my search to fill the hole of abandonment. Therapy and my program help me face these issues today.
5. We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships. Victim. Persecutor. Rescuer. Which one? I've been in all three. And in all three of these roles, I always do because of the attractiveness is "loving" someone who is weak--the other or myself.
6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc. For me this is similar to #4. It certainly is true when I caretake others in my personal life. If I'm not careful, I can be enmeshed in the problems of those close to me especially those whom I find to be needy. "If I give you what you need--whether I have it or not--maybe I can fill that void of abandonment in me.". It never works though. Sadly.
7. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others. This is par for the course for me. I feel that sting of guilt when I speak my mind or stun up for myself.
8. We became addicted to excitement. Yes! I saw this in myself last year when the only way I found myself relating to a friend was when I picked a fight with him. They were heated arguments and one time ended in a physical fight. That was when I went back to the program. My life has become unmanageable.
9. We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue." No argument here. I was attracted to I pitiable people that I loved to rescue. The problem was they never loved me back. They couldn't and I should have realized that when I first saw them as "pitiable".
10.We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial). It took me a few years in therapy to tear down my denial and started to recognize how it was to feel for real. Today, I have to pause every so often to take a deep breath and ask myself "What am I feeling right now".
11. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem. Yes, I know that working on my self-esteem will be a lifelong process for me.
12. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us. I'm not only dependent but codependent. Its my sickness. If I'm not mindful I tend seek out only those people who are in their own sickness and get enmesh with them. The thing is they are always the ones that can give back emotionally.
13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink. I can be a dry drunk; get emotionally, anger easily, judge wildly, isolate...
14. Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors. This is true for me. I always wait for others to make their first move and I react--almost always negatively. In the lowest point of this disease, I will even contrive to make others act in an adverse way so that I can react back adversely. In other words, to pick a fight is the only way I can communicate or at least it felt that I was communicating. It's the nature of this dis-ease.
Blessings,
James.
-- Edited by James7 on Tuesday 6th of March 2012 05:33:36 PM
Nakoda said
Apr 24, 2012
1.We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.
I have been an isolator as long as I can remember. As an only child I spent most of my time at my grandparents in the city, or at my parents alone either in my room or out in the woods. Since there were no other kids around generally or if there were I did not want them to come to my house as no one was poorer than us. As an Indian I was raised to "question authority [Esp the GOV! which is funny as I work for the Dept of Interior] just not my mine" as my dad would say. I do not respect authority if that authority does not deserve my respect. But I do respect Elders, Leaders, and healers. The only people I was afraid of are men in relationships and their ability to hurt me due to my attracting emotionally/physically or spiritually unavailables/abusives. Now I'm just afraid of me/my choices!
2.We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
I never thought of myself as an approval seeker but recently I realized my humor is used to manipulate, make people at work like me and want to keep me around/give me raises/promote me. Worse, I do it in relationships with men, to manipulate, to appear not to care, to use as a shield to keep me safe.
3. We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
My dad was a happy drunk but miserable sober- I could FEEL his fury building and as an only child I knew who was gonna bear the brunt. Finally when he would beat, yell, or humiliate me, it was a relief from the ax hanging over my head, I knew I was safe for another week or two.
4. We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
My last two relationships were with guys with Asperger's Syndrome. The first one I was unaware why he was so emotionally unavailable, didn't like any touch or kissing unless having sex but insisted he loved me. I figured it out with the second one when he told me he and his dad were on the autistic spectrum and I researched. Wasted 8 years with the first, realized and cut out 9 mo. into the second. Whew! 5. We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
I do not feel like a victim I am a fighter for underprivileged, an activist, I joke, Im a rough-tough-cocopuff- brown and crispy on the exterior but obviously something on the interior is attracting those I feel I cannot get close enough to, to feel hurt. Or conversely, those that are damaged ie beneath me so subconsciously they certainly wouldnt leave me? Just make me miserable. Like dear old dad.
6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
I do have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility, but I also ruminate over my own faults late into the night. Or early in the morning. Or all day on my days off. 7. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others. Nope. I am a fighter. To a fault.
8. We became addicted to excitement.
This is a new one for me actually- I am addicted to the excitement of a new relationship with a neurotypical man. Since I have been affection and attention starved from the Asperger's men I imagine. Working on recognizing and finding a happy medium ie not a Asperger Syndrome robot, but not a closet alcoholic -this has happened twice- didn't drink around me- whom I feel an immediate "click" with (This is the one! Soul mate!Argh.) and excitement whereby I miss the warning signs due to being drunk on feelings!
9. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
Not really had this one, not guilt but hanging on to long Well, he doesnt beat me! I was able to give my last relationship two chances by calmly talking about my needs without falling trap to what you argue, you make real. So we did not spend endless hours or days arguing over nothing but kept to the issues ie 3rd convo on issue: This is what I need. I cant do that, and shouldnt have to; if you werent so needy you wouldnt ask! Okay thank you for your honesty-bye! (Condensed version!)
10. We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
I can recall all the abuse but don't really feel it. I imagined I had accepted it but guess it could be stuffed-Ha- just had an ephipany- of course it's stuffed that's why I attracted emo unavail men and why we are doing these steps. *smiles*
11. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
I have always suffered from low self esteem. And as I posted earlier mostly use humor as a shield to protect me from anyone knowing how sensitive I am, how much I am hurting and inevitably keep people away because I never appear serious and no one really knows who I am. Including myself. My dad physically abused me, yes, but worse verbally. Culturally it is understood we use shame and teasing to keep people "in line" but NOT kids! Also, especially after the 9 years of Asperger's guys hearing constantly that if I wasn't so needy or insecure I could accept the fact they didn't like to touch or be touched, kiss, look me in the eye, lack of spiritual connection, etc., etc.
12. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
YES! And continued to live with sick people who were never there emotionally for me, just like dear old dad. see #11!
13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
I get drunk on feelings.
14. Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.
I am a reactor. In a relationship I will not call, text, msg, or email someone "out of turn." I will only respond to them for fear they will think I am too needy or demanding. I get extremely anxious both in the content I write, deciphering the content he wrote, how long it takes him to respond, to determine how and when I respond. The only breaking of this rule might occasionally be a joke, forwarded story, comic (of course!) etc. if I havent heard from them in the right time. Not sure if this is due to dad or a traumatic incident from my youth when I was told my boyfriend had killed himself, didnt call me-left a note, and stupidly, went to where he did it (Need another board for this one).
-- Edited by Nakoda on Wednesday 25th of April 2012 04:57:33 PM
Nakoda said
Apr 25, 2012
I have never heard of the "yellow book." I have been working the blue book but not really connecting with the questions, i.e. questions about the alcoholic(s) in my life or don't always feel "done" with a section- like is that all there is? My sponsor knows I'm an ACA but hasn't mentioned it. Do I have to start over to really get to the meat of my issues? Argh! Nakoda
JamesCT said
Apr 25, 2012
Nakoda wrote:
I have never heard of the "yellow book." I have been working the blue book but not really connecting with the questions, i.e. questions about the alcoholic(s) in my life or don't always feel "done" with a section- like is that all there is? My sponsor knows I'm an ACA but hasn't mentioned it. Do I have to start over to really get to the meat of my issues? Argh! Nakoda
I don't know if you have to start over or not. Most people I know who have completed the steps re-work them anyway. I know I do. Start where you are comfortable.
2back1fwd said
May 12, 2012
ahh so need this today. thanks
We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures. Isolation is normal for me. Growing up my parents had parties, but its like nobody else was allowed to be there any other time. I don't ever go out of my way to spend time with people for "fun". There always has to be a need, a purpose to it. And I don't ever really tell the truth about things/life at home out of fear of what they will say and do. I see everyone else as an authority figure, I am afraid of them and stay away. I hardly told anyone what went on at home. And when I tried... WW3 commenced. They didnt listen/believe me. What i learned from that is "shut up and dont talk about it". the past couple years I have still been in isolation and living in fear and avoiding people and meetings because someone always has something @#$#@ to say about me. The only thing I do in this world on a daily basis is go shopping, go to a movie or just stay in my bubble when I go out and do things.
We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process. I'll only do, think, feel, act in ways that assure me nobody will "call me out".For years I had a very hostile negative attitude, but on the outside i laughed everything off, i was quite the jokester to make sure people would stick around.
We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism. I was laughed at regularly at home for making mistakes. Or my dad would laugh at things I did simply being a kid, and having no positive love from either parent, I take everything personally. I feel like there's something "wrong" with me for saying/doing this or that. The instant I feel like someone is going to criticize, or DOES criticize me I internally shrink into a ball and wish I could just blow away.
We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs. I believe (no proof)I married another ACOA who was/is VERY anti drug. A few years later I long-distanced dated an addict/bi polar man that ended very badly. Other than that I do tend to get involved with unemotional/unavailable people. Normal, loving, positive people scare the f out of me and i avoid them like they have a disease.
We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships. Today I still feel completely powerless over making choices in my life, i avoid making decisions because I believe I can't. Anybody who tries to change my mind becomes enemy #1.
We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc. All I ever do is do things for my mom. Cooking, cleaning, errands, etc. everything else is a waste of time.
We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others. It's normal for me to give, give, give, give everything I have. and i feel guilty when I want to stop. this sounds silly but I do this all the time, even when I play games on facebook. If I don't give everything away, i feel guilty. And i always end up going back to giving everything away until I'm so drained its like im barely standing up.
We became addicted to excitement. Quiteness, boredom, nothing--feels like hell.
We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue." I recognize i feel sorry for my parents, for my family because they have it "soooo hard".
We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial). Umm. Yup. And when those feelings come up and need to come out, i panic and quickly try to make it stop.
We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem. I am ALWAYS on the outside looking in. I always feel every physical flaw when I'm out in the world. I care too much how I look, and I don't like it when people notice me. I want to/I do run away.
We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us. Yeah I'm doing that now. I'm terrified of becoming a responsible self reliant person because I feel like I can't do it.
Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink. I am definitely a clone of my mother. When i was younger I could see her actions/behavior as downright paranoid and confusing, but now its normal.
Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors. Never really understood this, but i know im constantly reacting to things going on around me.
4: Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Oh, how I feared this one. I have always considered myself my own worst enemy and harshest critic. And I dreaded doing this one because I felt that once I got started that I would never stop bashing myself, beating myself up.
So after procrastinating about this step forever, I finally went to the workbook and found that it didn't have to go as I had feared. And that's because of a key principle: blamelessness.
We're not here to indict, not at the forums, not in the on-line meetings, and not in Step 4. It's not about retribution and restitution. It's simply but fully acknowledging what was done to us and what we've done. We're not concerned with blame at this step. We simply seek full knowledge and comprehension.
From the Yellow Workbook: "Simply recounting the past is not always enough to bring about healing and self-forgiveness. Without knowing the meaning of the abandonment encoded in the past, the adult child is doomed to repeat it. The unexamined past becomes the future of the next generation."
Because this is the procrastination step, I'm going to start with a workbook exercise in this first post to try to get you started right now. Below, find the Laundry List. Note the ones you identify with and write how they apply to you.
Here's how I answered this:
Number 2 showed itself in my tendency to try to warp myself to my woman's expectations in order to keep the relationship going rather than being myself. If I was with a woman that liked, say, the Atlantic Monthly, then I would start reading the Atlantic Monthly. There was a time when my first girlfriend broke up with me that I had to actively rediscover what was me and what I had added to me in order to get along with her.
Number 3 applies, except frightened is not quite the right word. The best replacement that means how I felt it is Kryptonite. Anger and personal criticism weakened me, it robbed me of my vitality and resolve. There was one particular son of a female dog in radio who would ride me so hard that on my lunch hour I would drive someplace relatively far from the radio station and just cry.
Number 4 happened in a couple of different ways. There was a time that I got briefly serious with an active alcoholic in a relationship. She was a great gal when sober but a complete mess when drunk. And I was seriously trying to figure out how to make it work. (After all, my mother made it "work" with my dad.) Her dumping me for questioning the viability of the relationship may have been the biggest favor ever done me. The other way it happened is that I found a woman with rage issues to basically "play the part of my mother" in my family drama.
Number 6 has manifested itself over and over again. I am constantly doing things for other people without making sure I have time for myself. I do homework every night with my granddaughter, not at all an easy thing to do. I thoroughly cleaned the ex-girlfriend's house for her twice and seemingly always had a chore to do when I visited.
Number 8 tends to show when I am participating in internet forums. I would post a strong opinion. Someone would counter. I would furiously type back again. I would refresh the page over and over again, looking for a response so I could pounce and immediately defend my position.
Number 10 is the corked bottle phenomenon. I try not to feel things because when I feel them it hurts too bad. Feelings are irrational and uncontrollable. There was a reason I found Star Trek's Vulcanism fascinating.
Number 11 I have tried to explain to people is split for me. I am easily my own harshest critic. It was a fear of my eviscerating myself that kept me from completing even this simple exercise. However, my self esteem is not really low. You at this point would point out my unlovability problem as evidence to the contrary. But I would argue that my belief of unlovability was a conclusion based on evidence and not a belief that there was something wrong with me. I guess I am saying that I was unlovable, but that was the world's problem and not mine.
Number 12 is the relationship addiction that I have talked about several times here. I have done a number of questionable things to keep a relationship alive. I somehow need to have tangible proof of my lovability in order to believe it.
Number 13 is kind of self-evident. We would not be in the program if we did not start acting like one.
Number 14 applies to me too. I am a behind the scenes kind of guy. I tend to keep balls rolling once they start, but rarely am I the guy to get things started, to make things happen.
"If we skip this Step or STep five, we risk relapsing into unhelathy dependence and self harming behaviour. An ACA relapse always features a recreation of the fear, self hate, and abandonment from our childhood.
I feel that I have been away from the boards for only about 10 days and I was relapsing into controlling behaviour and emotional manipulation of my partner. Luckily for me, I could identify this and I have tried to stop myself. He started to look at me a bit funny a few days ago and I thought... woops.. here we go again.
I have not done this step before so I have reviewed 1 - 3 and I am gonna give this one a go... I think it may be alot of work
James and Linda, what a huge relief to see that you have started in on this, and James, for providing some structure. I don't have the workbook as yet and I have been dreading this step, too. Will be back after pondering. These are huge questions.
-- Edited by ASpaceOdyssey on Monday 9th of January 2012 12:24:30 AM
1. We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.
I am very careful about making new friends, or letting people close to me. And my gut tells me it is because I anticipate that they will be a lot of work! I think this relates to # 2 I have grown up being a people pleaser, and it has worn me down. Now I closely guard my energy, and prefer to spend time in solitude or with animals. Not really sure what to do about this.
2. We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
I am still trying to absorb this one into my heart. I know it to be true I have a specific familial role: the helper, the one that never burdens others with problems of her own, competent, hard working, etc. Over many years I am 40 now - I have given a huge part of myself trying to help my family and AH husband in all sorts of different ways. Over the years, I have tapped myself dry, and I feel empty. Running on fumes. But there is still a part of me that doesnt get this. It feels good to help people. Shouldnt we all help each other? But, I do realize that help should come from love and be freely given, with no expectations attached. And I do realize that I have expected returns for my niceness over the years, returns which have not been forthcoming! Making me resentful and bitter. So, I need to always remind myself to be honest with myself. Ask myself why? Is this really what I want or need? It helps me to focus on self. What do I need and want. But, I admit, I still struggle with this. The self focus feels good liberating, energizing, healing . . . and selfish. And that brings up memories of how horrible it is to have to live with selfish people (like AHs), and I question myself. Am I being true to myself and honest, and healthy or am I being selfish?
3. We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
I have had this problem for a long time since I was a little girl, and it is related to #2. I would try so hard often sacrificing my own wants/needs to do what I thought needed to be done to make things right. So then, if a person came back and criticized me, I would get very angry! How dare they criticize me when I had worked, and worried, and tried so hard!! It felt SO UNFAIR; I felt like a VICTIM. I have improved in this way in the last couple of years, by taking responsibility for my own needs and wants. Reminding myself to give freely or dont give at all. And always to remember that everybody else is human just like me (compassion; empathy) They dont know the answers, and they make mistakes, and it isnt always about me. This has helped me feel less like a victim. I used to feel sort of like life was a game and I a player. If I played the game with enough skill and intensity, then I should be a winner, right? But this is playing god . . . thinking that that I can control situations and circumstances. It has been very freeing very healing to realize that this is not the case. That it is not my responsibility to make everything right. Having this responsibility coming off my shoulders felt good. I gladly give it to a HP. But I still slip back into this role all the time where I believe that my supreme effort is required, expected that is wrong not to give it to make things right. Like if only I am willing to be self-sacrificing, I can make things better. So, to help me with this, when I get that feeling, the compulsion to DO SOMETHING, I try to turn it toward myself. What do I need to do for myself, internally or externally, to make things right for me? This helps tremendously.
4. We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
Found one and married him (it only manifested years after I married him). Though I married a man that couldnt be more different in personality and looks from my father, I am living with an AH that doesnt work, exactly like my mother.
5. We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
Interestingly, now that I am fully aware of the drama triangle and the victim role, and understand when I am within the drama triangle, I can look back and see some of my mistakes. For instance, during one of my early dates with my now AH husband (back in 1994!) he tearfully told me that he just wanted someone to love him; life was hard, and he hadnt found that. Ah, I was needed I could do that for him, give him all the love he could ever handle! That was my exultant reaction. Now I see it as an automated response: the relationship felt good to me because I was needed (i.e. he was a victim of life, and I could heal the sad wounds that fate had dealt him). But in return (I also now realize), I expected him to be my rescuer when I felt the victim. So, we had a nice little drama triangle going. This also ties into 6 give me responsibility Ill take it, it feeds me, my sense of identity.
6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
HUGE for me. Responsibility FEEDS me. Though I have made some progress in understanding why (I want control), and have been able to step back and acknowledge my fundamental lack of control, and give it to a HP, I still seek responsibility. It is a love-hate relationship. As I eagerly take on that next thing, I feel tired. It is like I am eating a food with little nutritional value hungry for it, but it doesnt feed me. Still struggling with this a lot.
7. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
Yes. I am trying to deal with this by self-examination every time I feel guilty. I also talk to a counselor about this regularly. When I feel guilty I ask myself why? Where is the feeling coming from? I try to track down the emotion and look at it with logic. This helps a lot, because I can then see that it is ok for me not to feel guilty for meeting my own needs.
8. We became addicted to excitement.
I dont think I have this one. I am adrenalin-averse. But Im not sure. Maybe I just dont recognize it in myself yet.
9. We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."
Yes. I already talked about this in #5. I think this is a part of living in the drama triangle, and wanting to either play rescuer, victim, or persecutor.
10. We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
I think Im still doing this. Just reading the question makes my head feel fuzzy. I do go to a counselor once per week, and try to talk about whatever has been troubling me the most that week. Hopefully Ill thaw out over time. Recommendations welcome. It helps to talk to others, as in MIP web.
11. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
Ive never felt like I had a low self esteem in the sense of Ive always felt capable, competent. But, I guess the low self esteem comes into play for me in the sense that I tend to feel that everybody elses needs are more important than mine. In fact, I often catch myself thinking in terms of others having needs, and me having wants. Self-sacrifice for the sake of others I just expect of myself. Is this because I feel less than those others? Maybe.
12. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
I dont think this one applies to me so much. I like being alone.
13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
A shocking reality check for me. Because it is true.
14. Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.
When I decided (~ 1 month ago) to separate from my AH, I wrote a letter. It said I was tired of wishing, wanting, waiting, hoping for things to change. All those things are reactions. So what I was really saying, realizing, taking to heart, is that I dont want to do this any-more. Want to stop reacting, and act for myself. I want to stop structuring my life around my AH. I choose this. I know some others decide to stay, and achieve this step while still in a relationship, but I chose to end it.
________________________________________
I wrote a really long reply and then I got kicked out....
must be something wrong with my internet
I am not going to type it all out again but basically I had something to say about most of the traits.
I identify with 1,3-7, 9 - 13
doesn't leave much that I don't think applies to me.
I read that list all those months ago and just sat with my mouth open. How could I identify with that? My Dad went to AA when I was 8. My family have told me I was not affected by his drinking cos I was so young when he stopped. I had the church and sober Dad.... (all my siblings are much older than I am).
Obviously it still 'stuck' for me. Yes he didn't drink, or bash Mum or me, he was still a dry drunk for many many years. We didn't really communicate much except for arguing. so yes... I am an adult child and I can accept that.
It has made me do some bad bad things.
-- Edited by LindaO on Monday 9th of January 2012 04:39:10 AM
Hi guys
This is a worksheet from the yellow workbook in relation to this post so far.
An example of how to fill it out is thus;
Event: Father yelled at me or blaming me for a istake
Cause: He said I didn't listen
HOw I felt: Afraid/physically small
Inner child reaction: Know in stomach/brathing difficutly
Type of trait developed: Fear of authority figure and criticism
Hope it helps.
I have read everyone's posts so far and want to thank you all for sharing. Your shares help me to work through my own feelings and thoughts.
I think I fit both of these traits but more the isolation. I seem to prefer being alone than with people but I actaully don't LIKE that. I have always wished I was more social and less anxious about attending functions with others. I would go out for sports in school and make the teasm and then quit when I would find out we had to travel somewhere. I was always afraid to go anywhere with others - I had no control to return when I watned to. I just was so FEARFUL all the time. Yuck.
2. We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
Definately have this one. I often am not sure who I am. I do have my own interests and they drive me and I take part in them regardless of who I am seeing but...I often put my own needs or wants on the back burner either afraid to express my true needs/wants for fear of the other person's reaction or I do things I don't really want to do fearing standing up for myself or what I want. I learned that you don't challenge or stand up to your partner/spouse or they will just leave or drink more.
3. We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
I am just realizing now waht a hard time I have with personal criticism. I think partly because I do feel like such a screw up with some things I have done. So...even though I get angry for someone critisizing me...I feel that way deep down inside but I still want to defend myself.
4. We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
I know now that I choose people who will always abandon me. Those are the people I am attracted to. How I find them and become attracted to them so quickly, I haven't figured out. It almost seems to be happening behind the scenes.
5. We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
I didn't realize I did this in my personal/love relationships until recently. I always felt like I was being victimized by their crappy behavior but I raelize now that when you continue to stay or continue to take them back (for years at a time)...you are playing the victim b/c how can you expect anything other than being mistrated if they have been mistreating you the entire time?
6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
Yes...I have this by almost always putting my needs/wants or what I know is right after someone else - but I tend to do this only with love interets and my family. I have a good hold on my professional life and with most friends (though I wasnt' always good at this with friends).
7. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
Yes yes yes..how can we act on our own behalf without then feeling bad about standing up for ourselves? We don't often...and I suffer from this also. I have gotten better about it - knowing it is OK to allow others to take care of themselsve..but it still makes me feel badly at times...guilty.
8. We became addicted to excitement. I am addicted to excitement through chaos and drama in my persoanl love relationships. I am not a thrill seeker otherwise but I recoginize now that unless there is turmoil or some sort of edgyness to my personal relationships, I am bored. I don't know how to be in a healhty relationship.
9. We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."
I learned this from the enmeshment that occured with me taking care of my mother..or trying to as much as a child can. I loved her, of course...but I think I pitited her at some point and have continued to try to rescue others who I think need rescuing...or I give them excuses for how they grew up and I think...well...she does that becuase of this or that..and I need to keep giving her second, third and twentieth chances because of that.
10. We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
Stuffed them, yes but boy do they play out in real life in the confusion and havoc that plays out in my personal life and the drpession and anxity that I often don't even know the cause of.
11. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
Big time. I never feel "right", good enough or healthy and I can beat myself up mercilessly for feelign like such a PERSONAL failure. I am ashamed for the people I have hurt in the past (healthy loves I found but then mistrated - prefering to choose people who would then just mistreat me instead) and that contirbutes to my low self-esteem. I know I am a good person and I have acheieved much in my life that I am proud of...but I think there is a deep seated self-hate for wishing I was just different in so many ways.
12. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
I have this trait for certain but have gotten better about recognizing it as I have gotten older. I was a slave to the overwhelming emotions of preventing losing someone when I was younger. The feelings were WAY more powerful and since I had zero knowledge of what was goign on...i was simply driven by them and would do ANYTHING to avoide being left. It wasn't losing the person so much as it was that my world feel apart if I lost tha control and didn't have that person. Through knowledge and maturation I have been able to control these overwhelcmiong feelings but I still struggle with the deep fear and ewmotional upset that they bring.
13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
I agree with this wholeheartedly and belive I have mmany of the characteristics and have, at times, wondered if I had or could have a drinking problem.
14. Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.
Nealry 95% of my life is a reaction. I always wait for the other person's move to decided what I will do..and this makes me feel like I'm in emotional jail becuase I am always either waiting for the other person to do smoething or I am afraid to make my own decision for fear of how the other person will react. I am afriad of being punihsed by making my own decisions...b/c ultimately I will FEEL punished by how the other person reacts whether they are actually punishing me or not. its all in my head.
Yes, it is true about me. While I longed for human company, I was scared of people and did not know how exactl I was supposed to behave. I hav a sister that is only 1 year and 4 months younger and when we were very young my Mom used to send us to our room each time we had visitors at home. She was very good at it, she did not have to say a word, she showed us with her eyes that she wanted us to dissapear to our room and called it a very good education.
2.We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
Before recovery kicked in, I cannot recall to have had done anything just for the fun of it. Everything I did was to get atention, approval. I was a heroe, a people pleaser, I was capable of giving my last slice of bread to someone else. I cannot tell that I lost my identity in the proces... I am not sure I ever developed one as a child. There was no place and no time for me to be me. I needed to keep people around me happy so that they keep me alive.
3.We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
Angry people are still my worst triggers. In the same time, I got beter with criticism. I learned a lot about it and why it has efects on my emotions and how to control my reactions to criticism. I still have lots and lots of lessons to learn.
4.We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
I was a smoker. I married an adict.
5.We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
As a child I WAS a victim. I didn't have any sort of options. As an adult I tend to be unpleased with my living situation no matter what that is. If I am single I don't like it. If I am in a relationship I don't like it. And so on.
6.We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
Oh yes, for almost my entire life I was convinced that I had responsability for everything possible and impossible. I knew everything better and needed to correct what thers were doing wrong. Today I don't care what others do. When I start obsessing about people I know that something in my own life is not ok. Sometimes switching is not a problem once I gain clarity. Other times I cannot do anything against it and I obsess and obsess until I cannot do it anymore and eventually I get tired and stop.
7.We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
This is something that recently changed. I am able to stand up for myself without worrying for others as I know they will get over it one way or another.
8.We became addicted to excitement.
I must say I don't create it anymore. But I dance along if I hear the music playing!
9.We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."
Did this all my life. I stopped. I can have compassion, show it but I do not have to save anyone anymore.
10.We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
I certainly do not feel for things I should. I do not love my Dad. My sister does. I do not love or hate my Mom. My sister does. I do not feel anything for the country I was born in. Not one bit of nostalgy. A lot of people in my situation have very strong bonds with it. Not me.
11.We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
Oh yes I judge myself in each small little insignificant detail! I can be my worst enemy who would not forgive a look or a gesture. I do a lot of self-esteem work and try to focus on the good in me.
12.We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
I am not terrified of abandonment anymore. I lived for 4 years on my own and I did pretty well. I tell to myslf very often that people who abandon me do not deserve me.
13.Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
All the books I read say that alcoholics are very sensitive persons. And so am I. I need to get stronger and care less about people and things that are not important to me.
14.Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.
Depends. In my home I have no problems taking big decisions. At my jobs I was more of a follower.
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Exercise 2 from the yellow workbook
Family Secrets Inventory
Almost every dysfunctional family has a story or image that family members present to friends and outsiders. For example, "The Rodriguez family believes in education and challenge. We never give up", the family says. Another family says "The Wilson family works hard, and we stick together no matter what comes our way."
Beneath the story line is the reality of the dysfunctional home. There are secrets, inconsistencies, and wrongs that are contrary to the family image. Family denial supports the family image and denies the hidden story. In this exercise, we ask you to list family secrets. The secrets can involve attempts by parents to hide addiction, inappropriate touching, mishandling of money, lying, and infidelity. In some cases, seemingly insignificant events can also be secrets.
List all the memories, incidents, and messages that were considered family secrets or inconsistnet with the family image.
You may or may not feel comfortable listing them here on this site. For me, I am not comfortable doing that, but I will do my own list and perhaps show my psychologist. It is just another exercise from the book. We don't 'have to' share our answers here.
-- Edited by LindaO on Tuesday 10th of January 2012 12:50:51 AM
2.We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process. ~Yes, I would do just about anything to be accepted by those I loved and could enmesh myself into any person or cause I believed in.
3.We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism. ~Yes, my Mom was very angry and critical and so was my exAH, you would think I would have gone another direction, but sadly I stuck to what I knew and married someone who misused and mistreated me just like my family of origin.
4.We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs. ~ yes, food, sex and yes drama(adrenaline) too. Work in emergency medical services and love it also.
5.We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships. ~ At times, but now I see myself mostly as a survivor!
6.We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc. ~ Yes again, I used to be the queen of distraction and misplaced blame on anything and everything. Now I own it and deal with it as I see fit. I still hate when I feel I fail someone, but I am learning to be human and okay about it :~)
7.We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others. ~ Very true, but I am learning to put myself first and discovering my needs and learning to fulfill them.
8.We became addicted to excitement. ~Ummm, yeah! I am trying the less dramatic life and relationships and not even as bored about it these days. I used to think I had to learn to knit and would make everyone full body suits with how bored I was in the beginning.
9.We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue." ~ Tried that and realized I don't want to be in those relationships any longer.
10.We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial). ~ Still uncovering my eyes of the layers of blinders I have put on to survive a lot of trauma, but I feel freer and lighter every layer I become aware of and work through. I still get angry about my past, but I work through it and set it free as it reveals itself to me.
11.We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem. ~ I am still my toughest critic and am a work in progress, but I like who I am and what I stand for. I am a good role model for my kids.
12.We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us. ~ This used to apply to me, but now I choose to be single and work on myself without the distraction of dating. I will at some point feel healthy enough and meet the right person, but am currently not focused on being with anyone and love that I am okay with being alone and working on me.
13.Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink. ~ Absolutely I became almost crazy trying to control my exAH and everyhting around me and I bottomed out hard. A year later I am doing great and am working on not obsessing about things and handing them to my HP (God).
14.Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors. ~ I do tend to want to react to people, but am learning to think first and or get to ahold of my sponsor first and change the cycle of craziness. I love the saying it's none of my business what people think of me. And to realize I am dealing with some sick people in my family that I can't change and then I go into the serenity prayer.
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Excerpt (is that the right word?) from book: In ACA, we believe shame claims the Number One spot. Shame was on the scene before abandonment and they serve as a fear based launching pad for an outward search for love and security. Shame blinds us to the fact that love is inside each of us waiting to be discovered. That means we carry a deep sense of inadequacy, embarrassment, or uniqueness without having to interact with another person.
The exercise
List incidents in which you felt shamed by your parents or caregivers. eg: abuse, or calm statements about appearance, speech, dress and mannerisms, hurtful comments veiled as jokes or teasing.
The difference between appropriate parenting and shame is how you feel about the act or coments. Shame makes you feel isolated, inferior, and unwanted. Discipline from loving parents can cause discomfort, but you still belive you have worth despite your mistakes.
Write examples of shame and include as many details of the incidents as possible, including your age, where you were, what was said, and how your body reacted to the shame.
Do you want me to continue with the exercises every couple of days? We won't get through them all in the time before step five but I can do a couple more if you like? Let me know please
Please do, Linda. I was going to put one here today myself.
Exercise 4 - because it is so closely related to exercise three
Abandonment inventory
This can be a physical abandonment in which we were left with friends or relatvies or day care centres while they practiced thier dependence. Some have been left alone for days. It can also involve shaming statements as you learned in previous exercise.
Write the times you felt abandoned by your parents or care giver. List your age, the location of the abandonment, and any other details you can remember.
Exercise 5 - Harms Inventory: Generational Transfer
In this exercise we inventroy how we have abandoned or neglected other people in our lives including our children. OUr words, flawed thinking, and reactions to life transfer dysfunction to hte next generation. The guilt we might experience in this exercise is helathy guilt. We have the support ofour group, sponsor, HP as we face the consequences of our behaviour.
The ACA 4th step involves a balanced look at our family of origin and our own behaviour and thoughts. The emotions, event and self blame stirred up by this step can seem overwhelming for some. As you work 4, we urge you to be gentle with yourself. Remember you are not alone, and you have not done or thought anything that someone else has not done or thought. You have character assets and abilities that help balance disturbing aspects of your life.
We ask you to balance any shameful or fearful memories that might arise with the knowledge that you have honesty and courage in your life. Adult children have an inner strength that has always been there. Remain focused during this process, but take gentleness breaks and stay in contact wtih your sponsor or counselor.
Promise 11 - With help from our ACA support group, we will slowly release our dysfunctional behaviours.
Fourth step prayer: Divine creator. Help me to be rigorously honest and to care for myself during this step. Let me practice gentleness and not abandon myself on this spiritual journey. Help me remember that I have attribues, and that I can ask for forgiveness. I am not alone. I can ask for help. Amen
I admitted lots of things, I looked at all the bad that has happened and all the bad I have done because of it.
I acknowledged a sickness that I have and I am willing to address the issues.
I didn't lay blame and be a victim.... I opened up and took my mask off to a person in confidence.
It was scarey and hard.
I did it myself first and then told someone (step 5)
Now I am recieving treatment for it from the psych and from ACA and a spiritual healer.
Hmmm any thoughts on if you think that sounds about right for a Step 4 and 5?
I would certainly count insights gained by you of that nature as part of Step 4 myself.
Step 4: "Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves."
Doing this Step was one of the toughest things I did when I entered the rooms of Alanon last year and CoDA some twenty years ago.
Now I feel that my HP is calling me to do this Step in ACA. So I will give it a try here.
1. We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.
When I get stressed out I still isolate myself especially from authority figures. I dislike and distrust authority figures especially those who are my "superiors". Because of the physical abuse that I suffered when I was a child under my grandparents and the neglect from my parents, I am still wary of authority figures. They never act for my benefit but theirs or I only end up pleasing them at the cost of my sanity.
2. We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
When I was growing up, I thought that if I really behave as a perfect child, my parents will not abandon me. And when I was left to the care of my grandparents, my grandfather will not beat me up if I behaved well and be obedient enough. I didn't work though. Approval seeking for me started way back then and it's really hard to kick this trait out of my system. Yes, I lost my identity in the process.
3. We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
Frightened of angry people? I'm freaking scared of them! I react to them in one of two ways. Either I cower under them or I confront them back with the same force of anger that they come at me with. Or a third way, i just let them step all over me. Yes, I also have a problem with personal criticism--it stings me. But my program helps me learn to QTIP--Quit Taking It Personally.
4. We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
Yeah, this trait is mine too. My sick abandonment issues are in my sick workaholic trait. On the outside I'm a successful administrator in a large non-profit organization and I'm always promoted to my next level of accomplishment. But inside all this busyness betrays my search to fill the hole of abandonment. Therapy and my program help me face these issues today.
5. We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
Victim. Persecutor. Rescuer. Which one? I've been in all three. And in all three of these roles, I always do because of the attractiveness is "loving" someone who is weak--the other or myself.
6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
For me this is similar to #4. It certainly is true when I caretake others in my personal life. If I'm not careful, I can be enmeshed in the problems of those close to me especially those whom I find to be needy. "If I give you what you need--whether I have it or not--maybe I can fill that void of abandonment in me.". It never works though. Sadly.
7. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
This is par for the course for me. I feel that sting of guilt when I speak my mind or stun up for myself.
8. We became addicted to excitement.
Yes! I saw this in myself last year when the only way I found myself relating to a friend was when I picked a fight with him. They were heated arguments and one time ended in a physical fight. That was when I went back to the program. My life has become unmanageable.
9. We confuse love and pity and tend to "love" people we can "pity" and "rescue."
No argument here. I was attracted to I pitiable people that I loved to rescue. The problem was they never loved me back. They couldn't and I should have realized that when I first saw them as "pitiable".
10.We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
It took me a few years in therapy to tear down my denial and started to recognize how it was to feel for real. Today, I have to pause every so often to take a deep breath and ask myself "What am I feeling right now".
11. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
Yes, I know that working on my self-esteem will be a lifelong process for me.
12. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
I'm not only dependent but codependent. Its my sickness. If I'm not mindful I tend seek out only those people who are in their own sickness and get enmesh with them. The thing is they are always the ones that can give back emotionally.
13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
I can be a dry drunk; get emotionally, anger easily, judge wildly, isolate...
14. Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.
This is true for me. I always wait for others to make their first move and I react--almost always negatively. In the lowest point of this disease, I will even contrive to make others act in an adverse way so that I can react back adversely. In other words, to pick a fight is the only way I can communicate or at least it felt that I was communicating. It's the nature of this dis-ease.
Blessings,
James.
-- Edited by James7 on Tuesday 6th of March 2012 05:33:36 PM
1.We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.
I have been an isolator as long as I can remember. As an only child I spent most of my time at my grandparents in the city, or at my parents alone either in my room or out in the woods. Since there were no other kids around generally or if there were I did not want them to come to my house as no one was poorer than us. As an Indian I was raised to "question authority [Esp the GOV! which is funny as I work for the Dept of Interior] just not my mine" as my dad would say. I do not respect authority if that authority does not deserve my respect. But I do respect Elders, Leaders, and healers. The only people I was afraid of are men in relationships and their ability to hurt me due to my attracting emotionally/physically or spiritually unavailables/abusives. Now I'm just afraid of me/my choices!
2.We became approval seekers and lost our identity in the process.
I never thought of myself as an approval seeker but recently I realized my humor is used to manipulate, make people at work like me and want to keep me around/give me raises/promote me. Worse, I do it in relationships with men, to manipulate, to appear not to care, to use as a shield to keep me safe.
3. We are frightened of angry people and any personal criticism.
My dad was a happy drunk but miserable sober- I could FEEL his fury building and as an only child I knew who was gonna bear the brunt. Finally when he would beat, yell, or humiliate me, it was a relief from the ax hanging over my head, I knew I was safe for another week or two.
4. We either become alcoholics, marry them or both, or find another compulsive personality such as a workaholic to fulfill our sick abandonment needs.
My last two relationships were with guys with Asperger's Syndrome. The first one I was unaware why he was so emotionally unavailable, didn't like any touch or kissing unless having sex but insisted he loved me. I figured it out with the second one when he told me he and his dad were on the autistic spectrum and I researched. Wasted 8 years with the first, realized and cut out 9 mo. into the second. Whew!
5. We live life from the viewpoint of victims and we are attracted by that weakness in our love and friendship relationships.
I do not feel like a victim I am a fighter for underprivileged, an activist, I joke, Im a rough-tough-cocopuff- brown and crispy on the exterior but obviously something on the interior is attracting those I feel I cannot get close enough to, to feel hurt. Or conversely, those that are damaged ie beneath me so subconsciously they certainly wouldnt leave me? Just make me miserable. Like dear old dad.
6. We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves; this enables us not to look too closely at our own faults, etc.
I do have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility, but I also ruminate over my own faults late into the night. Or early in the morning. Or all day on my days off.
7. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others. Nope. I am a fighter. To a fault.
8. We became addicted to excitement.
This is a new one for me actually- I am addicted to the excitement of a new relationship with a neurotypical man. Since I have been affection and attention starved from the Asperger's men I imagine. Working on recognizing and finding a happy medium ie not a Asperger Syndrome robot, but not a closet alcoholic -this has happened twice- didn't drink around me- whom I feel an immediate "click" with (This is the one! Soul mate!Argh.) and excitement whereby I miss the warning signs due to being drunk on feelings!
9. We get guilt feelings when we stand up for ourselves instead of giving in to others.
Not really had this one, not guilt but hanging on to long Well, he doesnt beat me! I was able to give my last relationship two chances by calmly talking about my needs without falling trap to what you argue, you make real. So we did not spend endless hours or days arguing over nothing but kept to the issues ie 3rd convo on issue: This is what I need. I cant do that, and shouldnt have to; if you werent so needy you wouldnt ask! Okay thank you for your honesty-bye! (Condensed version!)
10. We have "stuffed" our feelings from our traumatic childhoods and have lost the ability to feel or express our feelings because it hurts so much (Denial).
I can recall all the abuse but don't really feel it. I imagined I had accepted it but guess it could be stuffed-Ha- just had an ephipany- of course it's stuffed that's why I attracted emo unavail men and why we are doing these steps. *smiles*
11. We judge ourselves harshly and have a very low sense of self-esteem.
I have always suffered from low self esteem. And as I posted earlier mostly use humor as a shield to protect me from anyone knowing how sensitive I am, how much I am hurting and inevitably keep people away because I never appear serious and no one really knows who I am. Including myself. My dad physically abused me, yes, but worse verbally. Culturally it is understood we use shame and teasing to keep people "in line" but NOT kids! Also, especially after the 9 years of Asperger's guys hearing constantly that if I wasn't so needy or insecure I could accept the fact they didn't like to touch or be touched, kiss, look me in the eye, lack of spiritual connection, etc., etc.
12. We are dependent personalities who are terrified of abandonment and will do anything to hold on to a relationship in order not to experience painful abandonment feelings, which we received from living with sick people who were never there emotionally for us.
YES! And continued to live with sick people who were never there emotionally for me, just like dear old dad. see #11!
13. Alcoholism is a family disease; and we became para-alcoholics and took on the characteristics of that disease even though we did not pick up the drink.
I get drunk on feelings.
14. Para-alcoholics are reactors rather than actors.
I am a reactor. In a relationship I will not call, text, msg, or email someone "out of turn." I will only respond to them for fear they will think I am too needy or demanding. I get extremely anxious both in the content I write, deciphering the content he wrote, how long it takes him to respond, to determine how and when I respond. The only breaking of this rule might occasionally be a joke, forwarded story, comic (of course!) etc. if I havent heard from them in the right time. Not sure if this is due to dad or a traumatic incident from my youth when I was told my boyfriend had killed himself, didnt call me-left a note, and stupidly, went to where he did it (Need another board for this one).
-- Edited by Nakoda on Wednesday 25th of April 2012 04:57:33 PM
You can acquire ACA literature here:
http://www.adultchildren.org/lit/Handbook.s
I don't know if you have to start over or not. Most people I know who have completed the steps re-work them anyway. I know I do. Start where you are comfortable.
ahh so need this today. thanks
Hi Jacque the ACA message Board can be accessed at this link: acoa.activeboard.com/forum.spark
I would post your question there as ACA members rarely post to this Board