Stepwork

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Post Info TOPIC: Alanon Step 3


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Alanon Step 3


Step Three

 

Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood him.

From Paths to Recovery.

Working step three will change our concepts of God and change our lives. We will find a friend who will always be there for us and be the God of our understanding. Once I understood this God ,the decision to turn my will and my life over to him, was easy.

 

My share

After attending  program for several months, I do believe that I began feeling better and that I had subconsciously made a decision to keep coming back using the Al-Anon program as my power greater than myself.,

 Step Three was a logical progression from my initial surrender in Step 1.  IN the first step,    I was completely defeated in all parts of my life.  My coming to accept that I always believed in a Higher Power in step 2 and then to actually saying "OK HP I will stop fighting for my way, my rights, my desires and I will let it all go and accept what is to be.  So that what HP wants I also want.  The decision to turn my will over is what this steps asks of me. I was always concerned about  turning my will over because I was afraid that HP would ask that I do something very hard that I would definitely fail at and that I would not get what I really wanted in life.  I was defeated at this point of my life and knew that my way could not work and I needed to trust that HP's way which may not be want I now wanted would be something that HP would give me the power to handle.

In the beginning I had no idea how to turn my will over.  My sponsor suggested that I use the alanon slogans each day in an attempt to align my will with HP.  I was told to Live One day at a Time, Pray, Focus on Myself, Let go of gossip,negative thoughts, criticism, be kind, gentle compassionate to people I met. That was a tall order but it kept me busy and I soon fund that my many negative attitudes were slipping away.  I realized that I was putting out more constructive actions and thoughts into the world and less of my old negative vibes that I so enjoyed sharing before.

 I have been in alanon many, many 24 hours and each day I begin the day with the 3rd Step prayer and know that HP will carry me thru the day if I continue to show up and do my part.

 

 I have had much joy during my years in this program: a wonderful career, a beautiful son, a successful marriage, great trips to foreign lands, nice fancy cars and houses and I have known many painful losses, the death of both my son and husband one from cancer one from alcoholism.  Thru it all my HP has been by my side giving me the courage, serenity and wisdom to go on one more day.   

 

   

Thank you for letting me share

 

Step Three questions

 How do I feel about turning my life over to HP for guidance?

 How do I know who or what my higher power is?

How can I stop thinking trying and considering and actually make a decision?

If I am unable to make this decision. What holds me back ?

How can I let my loved ones find their own life path as I am finding mine?

What can I do to try to see others as God sees them?

How can I express God's will and my actions and words towards others, including the alcoholic?

 

 

 



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Betty


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Thank you for your share, Betty. The Third step was a tough one for me as I did not have a God of my understanding when I came to AlAnon. The God concept I was aware of growing up was very unpleasant and certainly would not work for my recovery or Step work.

I was very appreciative that AlAnon encourages us to formulate our own higher power (HP) concept. Even so, it was still a challenge for me to come up with an HP concept that made sense for me, that fit into descriptions in the literature as I read and was truly a source of guidance and comfort.

I read many different suggestions, including using the AlAnon group itself as my HP. It took me weeks of reflection and meditation to identify my HP and become comfortable with the concept. During this time, I tried to stay very active in the program, reading and attending as many meetings as I could and seeing real progress in my behaviors and attitudes.

Once I was able to identify my HP, I felt that the program was truly mine, that I could tap into the full power of the program, beyond the utility of the slogans and practical advice. Prior to this, I couldn't turn my life and my will over to something I didn't fully believe in and accept. I saw that some members were able to move forward with a temporary HP, but for me it worked out best to spend the time to make sure I was truly comfortable with the concept and ready and willing to execute what Step 3 asked of me.

Because my HP concept is so believable and real to me, working Step 3 was a real turning point in my recovery. At this time I also increased the consistency of my reading and meditation, and it really did feel like I was no longer alone with my thoughts and struggles. The program came to life for me with Step 3...

Step Three questions

How do I feel about turning my life over to HP for guidance?

Before forming a believable, real HP, impossible. Once I did, it was a constant struggle as I wanted to, but had to make a conscious decision to reroute my thoughts through this new decision loop.

It was a very clunky process initially, one that I often had to go over after the fact by reviewing the things that I did not turn over to my HP. During my meditation time, I would replay them in my mind as I would have liked to in a live situation.

This has helped me initiate the process more naturally, more consistently, and more effectively. Still a ton of work to go, but I can see real improvement. These changes have come as a direct result of my work to turn things over to the wisdom of my HP rather than maintaining my illusion of control.   

How do I know who or what my higher power is?

Because I created it according to my specific needs. 

How can I stop thinking, trying, and considering and actually make a decision?

This is an area I have need of improving. Steps 1 and 2 helped lay the groundwork for this as I am reminded that I am powerless over most things, and thus need not carry the burden of trying to make the "right" decision that will allow things to work out as I want.

Step 3 reminds me that I need only do my best to make a decision with the information and insight that I have, then I must turn it over to run its course. The first three Steps have helped me let go of much worry and concern, firm in my conviction that I can navigate any outcome with the help and wisdom of my HP.

If I am unable to make this decision. What holds me back ?

I have found that fear is the basis of my freeze-ups. Fear of the consequences, of being perceived negatively by others, of making the "wrong" decision. This fear is a reminder that I need to patch in the program principals of Steps 1 and 2.

How can I let my loved ones find their own life path as I am finding mine?

By minding my own business and staying out of theirs. For me, this means not offering my opinions. Even if advice is solicited, I try to refer to program principals that I truly believe in and have seen work in my life, rather than specific advice on what I think should be done. I am working on being loving, kind, and showing confidence that they can find their way through whatever challenge they face. More of the program, which is all of that, and less of Me (ODAT p.57, 221, 256).

What can I do to try to see others as God sees them?

I must remember that my view of things is often flawed, and heavily skewed by and toward my own weakness, fear, and sometimes unknown biases (C2C p. 79). There is not just one correct way, and it most certainly is not the one I hold. I am working to see differences in others as just that: differences.

Perceived differences in others need not be accompanied by a value judgement. Instead, they can be seen as a reminder that there are many ways to view things...ours is but one, we need only see to it that it works for us by allowing us peace. Daily readings help remind me of these principles.


How can I express God's will in my actions and words towards others, including the alcoholic?

Hmmm....The HP I formulated wills peace, love, and wisdom for me and others. This challenges me to continue working on reshaping my expectations, responses, and the sometimes conditional nature of my love for others. When I am expressing the will of my higher power, I am loving and in control of my responses, even things don't go the way I wanted or hoped. I try to remind myself that everyone is worthy of love.     



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Hi Paul Thanks for sharing your wisdom. You have a powerful HP --very much like mine that I now fully believe in . It is "Perfect love, wisdom, understanding, compassion, knowledge,power, and empathy, serenity and courage. Surrendering my will to my HP is so easy now.
Thanks for sharing the journey .
Betty



-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 23rd of August 2015 10:41:58 PM

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Betty


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Thanks, Betty and Enigmatic.

Turning my will and my life over to HP is not something that is new to me as a concept, but it is something that I struggle with. I was certain that I would go into the ministry when I graduated from high school and went off to college. I spent a lot of time building my relationship with HP and building trust as a teen and young adult. When my first partner passed away, I was 22, and I confused HP with human congregations. I felt abandoned and betrayed by HP because of the actions of individuals and human congregation groups. And, I was very angry at HP for taking my partner from me so soon. At the same time, I relied entirely on HP to guide me and I decided to follow any path that opened to me, because I wasn't able to plan or make decisions myself. Since then, I have been trying to reestablish the trust and faith I once had in HP, and have been trying to get to know HP as an adult, and outside the confines of any specific rhetoric. Life with my AW has been a real barrier because she is so vocal about not believing in any kind off HP, of ridiculing my own faith, and because of the disease itself. I felt that I had to take control or something horrid would happen. Really I should have given HP control long ago and followed any of the paths HP made available to me. 

Step 3 Questions: 

How do I feel about turning my life over to HP for guidance?

Complete relief. It is stressful to think that I have to be in charge of my life and make the right decision all the time. It is stressful to be the person making all the decisions for everyone, because that makes anything that doesn't work out my fault. Even AW's drinking became my fault because ...(enter handy and illogical justification here). When I give up control, when I do not know what to do, HP has a plan, and I have experienced it. That is what brought me to graduate school and my current job (that I love). HP's plan is the one I followed that opened doors to allow me to travel and experience the world. Not planning and following HP has not lead me wrong yet. Forcing solutions and trying to control things myself has. Clearly, things work better for me when I turn my life over to HP and get out of the way. 

How do I know who or what my higher power is?

HP speaks to me through things and events around me. The beauty in a flower, the first bud of spring, the whisper of the water, the kindness of strangers. If I open my eyes, ears, and heart, HP is speaking to me. Most clearly, I see HP's love at work in the eyes of my rescue dogs. 

How can I stop thinking trying and considering and actually make a decision?

I think that if I find myself trying too hard, or thinking too much, or worrying about something too much, that I am on the wrong path. I need to step back from the situation, focus on myself and today, and let things happen as they naturally will. I have been wondering if I should stay with my wife or leave, and the courts have made the decision for me, at least for the next year or two. I can help HP by not trying to force a different solution/situation (packing up everything and moving to a different county) and instead continue to live my life and see what happens. I am about 8 months away from the end of my job. In this case, I can have discussions with my boss and HR, and apply for a wide variety of jobs in a variety of locations. Then, I can wait and see what happens. I think that the decision that is right for me is a clear and logical one, and one that presents itself at the right time. I need to slow down, calm down, and listen. 

If I am unable to make this decision. What holds me back ?

Connections to people hold me back from decisions. Change in my life tends to mean an end to some relationships that I care deeply about, and fear of this loss holds me back from decisions. I think that losing my first partner to cancer when I did has caused me to fear losses of any sort, and it also prevents me from making new connections and experiencing new things. I cannot try something new without giving up something old. 

How can I let my loved ones find their own life path as I am finding mine?

I think this is a hard one. I feel sometimes like my loved ones need a push out of the nest, so to speak. Especially with my AW, I feel like I really have to be steadfast in my decisions & beliefs, because she will not find her own path if I allow her to stay on mine. 

What can I do to try to see others as God sees them?

I can see everyone as a human being, and give everyone the benefit of the doubt. I can allow people to make their own decisions and give them the dignity of their choices, and get out of the way. I can assume that I do not have all the information, and I do not have the whole picture, so if I do not understand or agree with a decision, that is ok.  


How can I express God's will and my actions and words towards others, including the alcoholic?

I can take things as they come, a day at a time, and not look too far into the future. I can say what I mean, and not make promises that I do not intend to keep. I can keep a level head, and not respond with anger, but acceptance. I can admit when I do not now what will happen, and I can give the stress to my HP. I can act with conviction but not anger or resentment. 



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Thank you very much for your share, Skorpi. I learn so much from hearing the ES&H of others as they find their path with the help of AlAnon principles. Continued blessings on your journey



-- Edited by hotrod on Sunday 23rd of August 2015 10:41:16 PM

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@hotrod - That is fantastic, I love it! I believe that the depth and meaning of my HP will change and deepen, will evolve just as I do in the program. I love that type of concept though because it is so complete...thank you so much for sharing that

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((Skorpi)) Thanks for sharing your process and your wisdom. I too became angry at HP when my husband passed after he had struggled for years with alcoholism and had finally attained sobriety for a full 6 years. He died quickly of cancer.
I am so glad that we allh found alanon and the meansl to find our way back to faith.\
Paul I appreciate your participation Thanks for

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Betty
akk


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Growing up, I knew that God was on my side. Looking back on the various events in my life through this program, I realized that He was there all the time, guiding me and protecting me. When saying the Lords prayer, I always empasized "thy will be done." I am working hard on the third step, using the slogans and the third step prayer which I find extremely powerful. Recently, I have had a life event change which I think was completely handled by my HP, and I just went along for the ride, not knowing how anything would turn out. In the past few days, I have been second guessing the whole thing, even though I know it is too late to turn back. I attribute that to my trying to take back control, so today I prayed for release from my will and this defect of character called fear. I have felt lighter.

Step Three questions

How do I feel about turning my life over to HP for guidance?
I am at the stage in my life where I know for sure that someone can do this better than I. I have been in unsettled territory for too long, doing things my way and they always stayed the same, never changing for the better-imagine that!

How do I know who or what my higher power is?
I know that my HP is kind, loving, understanding and ever present to me because I can always talk with him and feel better. I may not get answers, but he listens. When I look at nature, my belief in Him is fortified.

How can I stop thinking trying and considering and actually make a decision? I think too much. I am working on getting centered and just being. I find decision making terribly burdensome and overwhelming. I am afraid of making a mistake and just feeling the yucckies inside because of it...even when I finally make a decision, I second guess it. I guess that that is something that I need to work on with my HP-after it, it is my will and my life that I am constantly questioning. If I turn it over to HIM, He will always do what is best for me.

If I am unable to make this decision. What holds me back ? What holds me back is giving myself the time to process it all and doing it with meaning and understanding. But now that I type that, I am thinking that is just a lame excuse. I am lazy and full of fear, still thinking that maybe I know what the heck I am doing. I am holding myself back. I am responsible for holding back.

How can I let my loved ones find their own life path as I am finding mine?I can be a participant and not an interferer. I have four kids and a husband and I am a know it all. I have to consciously work on keeping my big mouth shut. I use the slogans, the acronyms (WAIT is a favorite!) and readings. I am beginning to understand that by not letting them find their own paths I am sending them the message that I do not think they are capable of doing so. We had a horrendous episode with our AD while another daughter was visiting us (AD does not live with us). After it was all over, I went to a f2f meeting the next day. I invited my daughter to go with me. I did not lecture, tell her that she needed it...I simply told her I found it very helpful to me. She came to that one and one 4 days later. HP at my side again, turning something difficult into an act of grace and love

What can I do to try to see others as God sees them? I remind myself that we are all God's creatures and He loves us all, every one of us. We are all beauteous in His eyes.

How can I express God's will and my actions and words towards others, including the alcoholic? I can treat them as I would like to be treated. I can ask God for help before an action or a word. When I speak with the alcoholic, I can ask God to put the right words into my mouth, I can ask him to guide me during the call. I can ask for His will, not mine, before an action or a word. At the end of the day, when I review the positive and negative of the day, I can thank Him for his presence in my life and as Him to come back tomorrow and every day.
Thanks for listening.



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((AKK)) thanks for your honesty and clarity. Your Faith is a powerful reminder to me that Yes my God was always with me-- I just refused to see or accept HIS way and wanted my will always. Love how working these steps has set me free of this defect.
Glad you are here

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Betty
akk


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Thanks, Betty. I know when I get pferklumpfed, I am trying to do my way, not His way. I need to listen to my voice that lives in my soul.

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I agree Akk, Listening to the still small voice within is the answer.

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Betty


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"Once I understood this God"

Does this statement not suggest that I do some form of Step 11 work prior to Step 3?

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You don't have a problem; you have a solution you don't like


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Not a bad idea. Prayers are always helpful It is suggested that the steps be worked in order for a reason.

In Step 2 we COME to believe in a Power greater than ourselves-
In Step 3 we make the decision to trust this Power with the care of our lives.

Making the decision only is that-- It is not actually turning our will over.

In Step 11 after working all the" house cleaning "Steps we are finally ready to ask for this Power's Will and the ability to carry it out.

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Betty


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I am only 2 1/2 weeks into Al-Anon and I know I still have a lot to learn, but it is amazing how much I have learned about myself and my A's in the short time that I have been here, and how much I have used from this learning process. For the first time in a very long time I am proud of myself. ODAT. I know I still have a long road ahead of me. I don't know if I will ever be where I need to be, as much as I hate to settle, I will settle for now for being that much closer. I dream about the Three C's, and the serenity prayer. I make myself say them as I am going to sleep at night...like a recording. As well as the Lords prayer. I do not get much sleep and I used to get up when I would wake up, now I stay in the bed and start over again till I fall asleep. I will probably be on the first 3 steps for a very long time. 

Step Three questions

 How do I feel about turning my life over to HP for guidance?

I turned my life over to HP 15 years ago I was happy happy happy filled with joy joy joy, I don't know what happened. (or do I?). Backsliding is common I am sure. Maybe it was trust or just lack of faith I don't know...But I am very comfortable giving it back to HIM!  Hesitant but comfortable. Ha! 

 How do I know who or what my higher power is?


I think it is just something you feel and well just know!

How can I stop thinking trying and considering and actually make a decision?

Now here is a good question. STOP THINKIN? wow....Something I have been doing for a very very long time...I have a lot of decisions ahead of me to make. I am not there yet..but I am trying. 

If I am unable to make this decision. What holds me back ?


I am holding me back, I know this. again, I am trying!

How can I let my loved ones find their own life path as I am finding mine?

I have told all of my loved ones how I have found my path and how much this has helped me so far. I leave it there and they can make their own decisions based upon that. I know my family they have to see results. And of course my results thus far are small that they do not see them yet. But I know they will. 

What can I do to try to see others as God sees them?


God is love. I am the kind of person that loves everyone no matter what. Probably why I am still with AH. 

How can I express God's will and my actions and words towards others, including the alcoholic?

AH's take on this has always been to turn it over to God.. Honestly he has been telling me that for years telling me if I want to help him to just pray for him. (instead of yelling at him, knocking him, etc etc) .. He loves God and probably trusts him more than I do. He says he does not understand himself why he cannot let go of his addiction, he reads his bible, he listens to preachers online... so on so forth. His belief is God has something important for him to do, and I believe this also. What he doesn't think about is God is not magic, he is miracle and AH has to really really want to please Him (quit drinking) for this miracle to take place. He has to want to do it first, then I believe God will step in and help him get through it. 

 



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Debra


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Thank you Debra for your honesty and clarity. Your wisdom and solid belief in HP is inspiring.
Please remember that here as in life, it is progress not perfection that counts. You are making great progress.

Thanks for sharing the journey.
Betty

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Betty


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Hi Debra, so glad you are here and willing to put forth the work to try on a new perspective. It sounds like you are already feeling some changes, that's fantastic! It was incredible to me how fast I felt results from challenging my old beliefs and ways, trading them in for the wisdom of AlAnon.

The program has challenged me mightily, but the returns have been immense. As Betty said, it's progress and not perfection; thank goodness because otherwise I'd be out of luck. I have moved at my own, deliberate pace through the program, and I feel not a moment has been wasted. Whatever works best for you and brings you more peace and serenity...

There is much to think about with each step, so glad you shared what step three meant to you at this point in your journey

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Good morning all - this step is so grand is we can pick it up and use it at any time, any day no matter where we are in this program nor how many years.

I tend to work the first 3 each morning. I have to remind myself that I am powerless over alcohol, people, places and things. I accept and believe that there is a power greater than me at work in my life and the world around me (and I am not it) and make a decision to trust my HP, which I call God as I go about my day.

I often have to 'chunk' of dissect the steps for easier comprehension. My brain tends to complicate most things when I rely on my own thinking, so this is where it's peaceful to realize/remember there is one who is working for the good of all and I just need to do my small part. So, for step 3, the action is Made a decision. It doesn't say Turned my ... - it just asks me to make a decision to turn my will and life over to the care of God, as I understand him.

When I got to this step, I had to truly consider the "as I understand him" portion. Coming from another 12 step program and believing I had a great higher power caused me some anxiety and confusion. Between Step 2 and 3 was where the 'rubber met the road' for me. My Aha moment came while working with my sponsor.

I was at a point in my life where I was very angry that my HP who supposedly loved me and wanted to best for me would plant me in this family of complete dysfunction and disease. A part of me felt guilty for being angry and another part of me wondered if my God had abandoned me or was punishing me in some way/form. I truly had to spend a bunch of time considering my concept of my HP here and came to digest/accept the following....

- My work in the other program was life-saving and brought me out of the fog of addiction to recovery. I spent most of my program efforts managing and reacting to my relationship with alcohol and mind-altering substances. When we discuss that alcoholics in recovery are often still selfish and self-centered, this is so true. We are taught that recovery depends upon our ability to avoid/reject that first drink.

For those of us with the disease of addiction, there are days where this is all we can do. Take out the trash? Nope....too afraid to leave the room/house. Go to the store? Nope....there is a full aisle of alcohol. Pick up the dry cleaning? Nope...it's attached to the liquor store I used to frequent. When the disease raises it's hand, the alcoholic must use whatever they can to stay away from the temptation of the first drink.

So, all my program/step work had to do with my primary issue - my relationship with mind-altering substances before Al-Anon. Family, friends, others were second as they were not relevant at that time to my recovery/serenity. We are taught that we can live happy, joyous and freely if we abstain from alcohol and relationships will improve as we work on our recovery.

In Al-Anon, the focus turns inward. We aren't focusing on avoiding alcohol, people, places or things. We are instead looking at ourselves, and what we do and how we act/react when things are going different than we expected or planned. We are asked to inventory ourselves, the good and the bad that makes us who we are and how we are.

Al-Anon asks us to use grace, dignity and diplomacy and accept ALL others around us for who they are exactly as they are in this moment. Al-Anon asks us to let them succeed or fail, get up or fall down, recover or remain active in this disease without our input, sarcasm, reactions, suggestions, etc.

I had a mini battle with my HP on letting go of two qualifiers, as I gave birth to them. After tons of processing, soul-searching and praying, I came to believe that my HP wants me to be me and to work on me and let him lead them to their destiny. So I do believe that my evolved God is working behind the scenes to bring peace and happiness to others just as he is for me.

Step Three questions

How do I feel about turning my life over to HP for guidance?

Once I figured this out, it feels great/awesome. Living as I did thinking I could control, cure, fix, change others was so exhausting and frustrating. To know believe there is another in charge and he will guide and direct them and I to where we need to be is relaxing - almost like taking weights off my shoulders. With practice, this has become so much easier for me to do and to feel comfortable with.

How do I know who or what my higher power is?

I do call my HP God, as that's easiest. I was raised with organized religion so always was taught to believe in that which you can't see. I now believe that my HP is all that I can see - people, nature, smiles, baby's laugh. When I stop and consider all that is and all that has been, I can truly see that everything I have and everything I am today is the direct result of someone who made me as he wanted and leads me as needed. He is everything and I am nothing when I turn away.

How can I stop thinking trying and considering and actually make a decision?I

I have to surrender to the disease and all that is brings. I must accept that which I have no power over nor can I change. Finally, for me, my own will and thinking and choices made me absolutely miserable. Relying on another brought me a why not attitude and a bunch of peace in knowing I was not responsible for anyone but me.

If I am unable to make this decision. What holds me back ?

For me it was unconsciously thinking I still knew what's best. It was my self-will which we all possess. When we battle this disease, we come to think that we can muscle through anything with self will and more effort. So, I am or was held back by my belief that my efforts to control, manage, cure and manipulate were or would be effective at some point. My inability to be humble, surrender and accept is what stands between me and my own peace of mind.

How can I let my loved ones find their own life path as I am finding mine?

I can pray for those I love who are on their own journey. I can stop doing for them what they are able to do for themselves. I can choose to not argue, defend, coach, counsel them. I can love them with grace, dignity and respect no matter what they are doing. I can focus on me, my journey, my steps and my program. I can ask God to keep me focused on me and what I can do/change about me. I can hope for them but not expect of them. I can just be me, a person among others, a peer to them. Not superior, not inferior. Just another child of God.

What can I do to try to see others as God sees them?

I have to realize that there is good in all things. I work to focus on what is right with a person/place/situation vs. what is wrong. I have to change my outlook from Glass half empty to Glass half full. I have to ask for God's will in my life allowing me to see the good in them and the good in their life. I must always remember that God doesn't have any grandchildren or step-children. He made us all as he chose so who am I to think they/it needs to be different/better.


How can I express God's will and my actions and words towards others, including the alcoholic?

For me, often the best answer is no words until I've applied some filters. I tend to say what I mean and mean what I say without considering the be nice concept. So, pausing before I speak and considering my tone and my chosen words is the best tool I've found to speak with love and concern instead of anxiety and despair.

Remembering the slogan of Say what I mean, mean what I say, but don't say it mean has been truly helpful. Many other slogans also help keep me grounded in the accept/surrender mode which helps me allow others to be as they are and me to choose to not react to it. Realizing that there is one in charge and he's not me allowed me the freedom to not speak, respond or react if that appears to be the proper choice in the moment. Focusing on what is good in my life and in others also helps me speak, act and be kind and loving. Lastly, I try to focus on the serenity prayer which helps me realize what I can change and what I can not.


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~~~Serenity is not the absence of turmoil but the ability to deal with it.~~~



Veteran Member

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@Iamhere, thank you so much for your thorough, incredibly honest share. There are so many points there that I appreciated and will consider as I continue to develop healthier habits of recovery. All of your contributions are greatly appreciated

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Guru

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Hi Iamhere Thanks for sharing your powerful experience with this important Step. I appreciate the fact that "you are here" and sharing the journey.

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Betty
akk


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Iamhere, your post describing the thinking of the alcoholic was really helpful to me. Thanks.

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